NMB Trophy

[Sudsy]

I think something similar was happening in the early church. The Jewish converts were having trouble accepting non-Jewish background people (Gentiles) into God's family. The Jews had this strong belief that they alone were the Israel of God, the chosen ones.

Sometimes this shows up not only in ethnic arrogance but in religious group superior attitudes. I saw this in the Pentecostalism I grew up in that to marry outside of Pentecostalism some considered 'stepping down' spiritually.

I believe God wants us to set aside all of these kind of things and if we walk according to the Spirit, we won't allow this way of thinking to exist as this is fleshly mindedness. Gal 3:28 -

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There should not be such a thing as considering others as trophies.

[Josh]

The NMB families I know who've joined ultra-conservative churches (oldest children in their teens), their background didn't seem to affect their children's eligibility as marriage partners. And perhaps steve will find this disappointing, but it doesn't seem like the Dad's business success or lack thereof was a significant factor either.

I have observed the same. When I got married, the preachers did ask the deacons to review my finances, simply because they knew I claimed to have a good paying job, but my only visible possession was a 2000 Jetta. I think such a “review” is eminently reasonable.

Hey that just shows good responsibility! Nothing wrong with a 2000 Jetta. Drive it till it croaks!

Interesting on the review. What did they look at if you don't mind sharing? Like your bank balance, portfolio, retirement, pay stubs, etc. ?

Looked at a few months of pay stubs and bank statements.

My vehicles are the oldest on average in my congregation. (1977, 1979, 1983, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006.) Spread across 3 adult drivers, 3 of those are “winter” vehicles, 4 are “summer only”. It definitely alters others’ perception of you.

On the flip side, another couple got a late 90s Jetta and is content driving it to church. Maybe we’ll start a trend.

[Josh]

Also don't think this is just a CA thing. Vast numbers of parents from every denomination and no denomination try to guide and influence their children's choices of spouses through a vast array of carrots and stick approaches. Some more successful than others. My wife has a lot of Asian colleagues in the medical field. Spend some time with them and their spouses in a social setting and and you will find that the intensity with which they concern themselves with making sure their kids find the "right" spouse is as intense as you will find in any CA setting.

Sort of what I think I'm gathering and can relay to NAB people is if a family "fits in", is "decent", and members for a while there is no reason they should face any biases towards their family.

They will, however, face the biases and problems all the ethnic families who can find an ancestor in the 1700s on Grandma Online face. These can be quite substantial.

I don’t really have any “fits in” and is “decent” NMB credit. I do, however, feel like my brethren have confidence in me as a Christian. They don’t have much confidence in me at all to act like a typical Mennonite or Anabaptist or Holdeman.

I’ve pushed a lot of cultural but not scriptural boundaries. For example, my 50/50 business partner is a single lady. She does sales, project management, etc. and I expect her to be taken seriously and included in business meetings. I’m not good at project management. Some Anabaptist background people really have a huge amount of difficulty interacting with a woman in a professional setting like that. (And yes, I drag my wife and kids along to meetings and let them sit in the car or take them along on business trips so everything is appropriate.)

It is impossible to meet everyone’s expectations. I learned today some people in my circles think I should have worn something other than a T-shirt with my business’s name in it to a family Thanksgiving gathering. I had no idea, but that misstep cost me credibility. (In my home congregation such conduct is fine, but it may be less acceptable in California.) Now I have someone who thinks I’m not fit to run a business because I didn’t figure out the proper unspoken dress code.

That’s just the way life is in Anabaptist circles.

[RZehr]

My vehicles are the oldest on average in my congregation. (1977, 1979, 1983, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006.) Spread across 3 adult drivers, 3 of those are “winter” vehicles, 4 are “summer only”. It definitely alters others’ perception of you.

On the flip side, another couple got a late 90s Jetta and is content driving it to church. Maybe we’ll start a trend.

Couldn't you repair the heaters and air conditioners, and then they'd work for all seasons?

[Josh]

Couldn't you repair the heaters and air conditioners, and then they'd work for all seasons?

I keep some vehicles "reserved" to get absolutely splattered and hammered with salt - particularly vehicles that already had a massive amount of rust. In those vehicles, keeping the heater working is the higher priority.

I happened to get a few vehicles which seem to have hardly any rust at all. I try to minimise driving of those in the winter.

As a bonus, it means there is a spare vehicle when one needs to go into the shop.

I was thinking of buying a new car a while ago. But a basic vehicle that can hold over 5 people is now $50k+ new. That's too much.

[Neto]

I didn't read all of the posts here carefully, more so just skimmed through for salient points.

With that admission in focus, here are my thoughts as a person with "Mennonite Pedigree" in my own particular Mennonite heritage, but with none at all in the group "into which I married".
I don't think it's so much what you all call Non-Mennonite Background as it is a matter of in-group vs. out-group. My own "Mennonite background" goes a couple of centuries or more farther back than some whole families of "conservative Mennonites". (One example, Mullets.) But I am still different - think differently - than the in-group people (even after nearly 40 years of marriage, and being supported by various congregations in this area for our mission work). And children are affected by their parents. For our family, I think the greatest effect of this is that we didn't discourage our children from questioning things. (Probably more so encouraged it.) But I must also say that this wouldn't have worked had my wife, in spite of her in-group background (Amish, then Beachy Amish-Mennonite), was also inclined toward the questioning. And our only married "child" (next month the youngest will turn 30) is married to an in-group guy who was also in some ways, a sort of "black sheep", because he questioned things.

However, I do want to emphasize that the way I feel about all of this is probably more due to my own tendency to resist change in some areas of difference between my own Mennonite (but still out-group) background and the in-group background into which I have come, more so than it is due to any resistance of acceptance coming from the people here. I have certainly been affected by the associations and close friendships here, and am grateful for that, and have learned very important things through it. (This is really off-topic, but I think that cross-cultural relationships will nearly always have some of these benefits.)

So do you feel more black sheep or pseudo Mennonite?
Would your questions be based more on theology (nature of communion) or church standards that could potentially make a NAB individual a black sheep?

More like the proverbial square peg in a round hole, or the other way around. My main differences of thought center around how the congregation operates. I favor a congregationalist church polity, where the routine decisions of congregational operations are made through periodic congregational business meetings (usually quarterly). These meetings are usually conducted using some form of Robert's Rules of Order, where motions that have been brought to the meeting by the church board are modified by additions or subtractions, until the church body is ready to take a vote. The pastor is then free to dedicated himself to the spiritual ministry of the church, w/o getting involved in the sometimes somewhat "political" decision making processes.