The Holy Spirit

General Christian Theology
KingdomBuilder
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Valerie wrote:I am familliar with the teachings of 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 regarding QUENCHING the Holy Spirit vs Ephesians 4 :30 regarding GRIEVING the Holy Spirit. Coming from Pentecost Church I feel they have an accurate understanding of the difference beteen "quenching" vs "grieving" the Holy Spirit. Looking and comparing both passages in context, it seems clear they are not the same thing- how would you summarize the differences after reading the passages? What would you say the difference is between the meaning of quench & meaning of grieve? This should help
Ahh, bingo! I searched a few times about "quenching the holy spirit" and could absolutely not find it (maybe I was up too later; maybe I'm just not so grand at using the internet...). I haven't really studied 1 Thess. in it's entirety, but Ephesians is one of my favorite books.

I agree they aren't the same. Quenching seems to be a willful opposition to the works/ deeds of the Spirit.
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Sudsy
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote: The difference between having and being full is a matter of degree, dependent largely on our level of submission to the Spirit's work in our life.
So, what do you make of this verse - Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

Sounds to me that 'having the Spirit' is either you do or you do not, no degree ?
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, everything you said is implicit in what I said.
Obviously in some cases someone can be "full of it" without "having it" but this is not true of the Holy Spirit. You can't be full of the Holy Spirit unless you have the Holy Spirit.
Sorry, I misunderstood. :oops: I agree with you.
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silentreader
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
So, what do you make of this verse - Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

Sounds to me that 'having the Spirit' is either you do or you do not, no degree ?
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, everything you said is implicit in what I said.
Obviously in some cases someone can be "full of it" without "having it" but this is not true of the Holy Spirit. You can't be full of the Holy Spirit unless you have the Holy Spirit.
Sorry, I misunderstood. :oops: I agree with you.
No problem, it is good to know that we agree, it seems we are often misunderstanding each other or are at cross-purposes.
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Sudsy
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by Sudsy »

Speaking of current day manifestations of the Spirit, I heard of one this morning in church listening to a missionary working with first nation folk here in Canada.

He gave a couple stories of how the Holy Spirit gave him the right words at the right time to say that he could not have prepared himself for. I will spare the details but it was one of those supernatural manifestations of the Spirit. We do not know just what is most needful for the listener to hear but God does and through the supernatural guidance of the Spirit we are given what to say.

He also made the point that any of us can be used of God to share our faith regardless of how 'qualified' we think we need to be. Even Paul, although well trained religiously, he determined not to preach to them by use of his own wisdom and persuasiveness but rather through the demonstration of the Spirit's power as he preached about Jesus. And was that easy ? No, he did it with fear and trembling.

A question that comes to mind - when was the last time we experienced the supernatural manifestation of God's Spirit working in us when sharing our faith ? Would love to hear some testimonies on this.
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Sudsy
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote:
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, everything you said is implicit in what I said.
Obviously in some cases someone can be "full of it" without "having it" but this is not true of the Holy Spirit. You can't be full of the Holy Spirit unless you have the Holy Spirit.
Sorry, I misunderstood. :oops: I agree with you.
No problem, it is good to know that we agree, it seems we are often misunderstanding each other or are at cross-purposes.
I'm excusing my part as old age. But it likely is that I read too fast and miss the points being made.
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Signtist
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by Signtist »

John Piper says the following...
Now the positive thing I want to say about the moderate Pentecostal teaching is that it is right to stress the experiential reality of receiving the Spirit. When you read the New Testament honestly, you can’t help but get the impression of a big difference from a lot of contemporary Christian experience. For them the Holy Spirit was a fact of experience. For many Christians today it is a fact of doctrine.
He obviously has teaching that many of us would disagree with, but I can't disagree with this.
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temporal1
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by temporal1 »

Signtist wrote:John Piper says the following...
Now the positive thing I want to say about the moderate Pentecostal teaching is that it is right to stress the experiential reality of receiving the Spirit.

When you read the New Testament honestly, you can’t help but get the impression of a big difference from a lot of contemporary Christian experience.

For them the Holy Spirit was a fact of experience.
For many Christians today it is a fact of doctrine.
He obviously has teaching that many of us would disagree with, but I can't disagree with this.
could you write a bit more about this? .. experience/doctrine ..
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Signtist
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by Signtist »

Still thinking some of these things through. My basic concern is that we don't get to the point where we only know we have the Spirit because the Bible says we do. For the believers in the New Testament it was an obvious experience, something my church in my growing up years minimized.

So someone in my class wondered why we have a period of time pass between conversion and baptism when this was obviously not the norm in Acts. And another wondered where we get the practice of tying church membership to baptism. Good discussion time.
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silentreader
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by silentreader »

Signtist wrote:Still thinking some of these things through. My basic concern is that we don't get to the point where we only know we have the Spirit because the Bible says we do. For the believers in the New Testament it was an obvious experience, something my church in my growing up years minimized.

So someone in my class wondered why we have a period of time pass between conversion and baptism when this was obviously not the norm in Acts. And another wondered where we get the practice of tying church membership to baptism. Good discussion time.
I'm presuming that you are referring to the SS lesson? What made Paul think that possibly these Ephesian disciples had not received the Holy Spirit?
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MaxPC
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Re: The Holy Spirit

Post by MaxPC »

Tangential thought: I heard a sermon in which the Holy Spirit is also the Soul of the Body of Christ, His Church.

That may open up the proverbial can of worms or it may not. YMMV :D
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