Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

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lesterb
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Re: Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

Post by lesterb »

Bootstrap wrote:
lesterb wrote:Let me think about your question a bit more. In a sense, this is what I did [see highlighted] when I started my thread on Ecclesiastes, though I framed it in the terms of inviting help and ideas. I did get some really helpful input from that. That might be one way to enter this and not seem egotistical about it.
That was a great thread. And if you publish that book, I'd love to read it ...
I've finished the first draft and am letting it simmer for a few weeks until I get back to it. I have two publishers who have expressed some interest in it. But my sponsor thinks I should self publish it.

Not sure what I'll end up doing.
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

Bootstrap wrote:This morning, I saw a bunch of threads that each ask which position is the right one on something churches disagree about. One of these threads had the title Whose idea, God's or Man's?

Let me step back 1000 feet. God's idea is to focus on the things he clearly told us and emphasized in the New Testament. Most of that is not hidden in obscure Greek or church history. And we aren't doing well enough at that. Isn't that the more important problem?

I think it's man's idea to argue endlessly about whose religious practice is the right one, and we can get so lost in this that we do not have time and energy to build communities of love, serve other people, examine our own lives before God, etc. As though some religious practice or theological doctrine or some other footnote is the thing that shows that my religion or my group is the true one. Jesus tells us they will know we are Christians by our love. Love is hard. We need to really work at loving God, each other, and our neighbor. If we get that right, by God's grace, it will be a witness in a way that none of these theological disputes can ever match.

This reminds me of something Stephen Covey wrote:
You can quickly grasp the important difference between the two if you envision a group of producers cutting their way through the jungle with machetes. They’re the producers, the problem solvers. They’re cutting through the undergrowth, clearing it out.

The managers are behind them, sharpening their machetes, writing policy and procedure manuals, holding muscle development programs, bringing in improved technologies and setting up working schedules and compensation programs for machete wielders.

The leader is the one who climbs the tallest tree, surveys the entire situation, and yells, “Wrong jungle!”
Are we spending too much time and effort writing detailed policy and procedure manuals for the wrong jungle? Is this kind of foolish disputation God's idea?
Maybe we should start by calling ourselves just Christian. It bothers me how all the denominations I have been to identify themselves as the denomination first. This turns into which denomination is better or true. We are all Christian that believe and follow the gospel.

I think as we strive to follow God, the body of Christ, will discuss the best ways to do that. I think we also must discern what is brought in front of us. Yes, some things will be false teachings and have the potential to lead us astray. We must stay strong in the word and address it with scripture.

I think there is a way to discuss different ideas without it turning into a debate or hard feelings. I think you said it in the part in bold above. We must do it in love. If we see that love is being lost take some steps back in how we are approaching something.

I think this applies on here, in the MN fellowship, and in the fellowships we frequent offline.
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

lesterb wrote: Put it this way. I view the human level of the church like a package. I have seem people reject the package because of a few almost minor items, then accept a package that seems a lot worse, but which they agree with on those minor details. To me that doesn't make sense. If you find a group that seems to be producing what you are after, why not accept the package? Even if you have to make a few changes in personal opinion or conviction.
I struggle with this. I can forgive but I am not forgetting for some reason. I know no one is perfect but at the same time I am disappointed when people fail. Even though I have failed. I just wrapped up my first 30 day Bible challenge today, and when I made it to the NT I was convicted of things. Mainly being able to love even when wronged. I know we are suppose to do it but it is hard.

I am praying and asking God to help me to accept the imperfect human church if it is His will for us to be there. To be able to see the wrong but stick around to make the wrong better instead of walking away. We are all walking the narrow path together right?
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Josh
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Re: Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

Post by Josh »

I struggle with that too. I wish I had laid aside pride, resentment, and anger a lot sooner. I also wish I had been willing to confront a brother given over to sin a lot sooner, rather than just being angry about it for a long time. I think that's a big temptation to us.

Jesus shows us a much better way - we have great hope in reading his words to us!
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Sudsy
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Re: Foolish controversies. Wrong jungle.

Post by Sudsy »

I agree with Robert that threads we have no interest in, we just should not participate in them. I remember when I would get discussed when two Kingdom Anabaptists would get into political discussions. So, I would challenge why they cared about such stuff. Currently I have no interest in the US-Canada Trade War, so I am staying out of it.

Anyway, I just read this thread as the title got my attention. I, too, would like more threads on orthopraxy, what Anabaptists view to be of high importance. Not orthopraxy to debate whether or not men should wear short pants and/or short sleeve shirts but more what I think God is most concerned about that really impacts the world we live in. Those who want to make threads on their views on areas like dress, can seek an audience for those threads.

There was something mentioned in this thread which perhaps fits in the right jungle and I have heard it mentioned a couple times lately and that comment was that love is hard. I think I'll make a thread regarding love for God and love for one another and what makes it hard. Now to create a simple OP.
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