Observing the Sabbath

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Bootstrap
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Neto wrote:If we look in Scripture as a whole, the term "The Day of the LORD" generally refers to a day of judgement. Not in the particular passages mentioned, but it is still well to keep this in mind.
In both English and Greek, "The Lord's Day" and "The Day of the Lord" are distinct phrases, not used interchangeably, with distinct meaning.

The Lord's Day (ἡμέρα κυριακῇ) refers to Sunday, as it probably does in Revelation 1:10 ἐν τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ. The word translated Lord's, κυριακός, is only used here and for the Lord's Supper, it is an adjective. It is also the word from which our modern word church is derived. The Lord's Supper was held on the Lord's Day by the Lord's people (or the Lord's house, if you think of the church as a building, I don't). κυριακός.

The Day of the Lord (ἡμέρα κυρίου) refers to the coming day of judgement. The word translated Lord's here is the genitive form of κυρίος.

One of these days will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. The other will occur again in about 4 days, and every 7 days after that.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Bootstrap wrote:
Neto wrote:If we look in Scripture as a whole, the term "The Day of the LORD" generally refers to a day of judgement. Not in the particular passages mentioned, but it is still well to keep this in mind.
In both English and Greek, "The Lord's Day" and "The Day of the Lord" are distinct phrases, not used interchangeably, with distinct meaning.

The Lord's Day (ἡμέρα κυριακῇ) refers to Sunday, as it probably does in Revelation 1:10 ἐν τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ. The word translated Lord's, κυριακός, is only used here and for the Lord's Supper, it is an adjective. It is also the word from which our modern word church is derived. The Lord's Supper was held on the Lord's Day in the Lord's House. κυριακός.

The Day of the Lord (ἡμέρα κυρίου) refers to the coming day of judgement. The translated Lord's here is the genitive form of κυρίος.

One of these days will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. The other will occur again in about 4 days, and every 7 days after that.
Thanks for clearing that up. I should have looked before posting. It was just an off-handed comment, not closely related to the discussion.
Last edited by Neto on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Adam wrote:
Josh wrote:The proper question is when Gentiles were expected to start observing the Sabbath, dietary laws, or any of the rest of the old law.
So do we ignore the teachings of Jesus since they were mostly aimed at setting forth the proper interpretation and observance of the law of Moses and the Prophets? Do they not apply to us since we, as Gentiles, are not part of the covenant God made with Israel? Or do the teachings of Jesus represent a New Covenant that we are bound to follow as Gentiles who are grafted in? These are actual questions that I am asking...not rhetorical questions.
Like Ernie, I think the teachings of Jesus represent a New Covenant. What Jesus said and did is centrally important for all Christians. And the parts of the Old Covenant that matter for us are the ones that Jesus, Paul, and others affirmed in the New Covenant.

How do you read the book of Galatians on this?
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Neto wrote:
Sorry I don't have the time right now to find the reference, but please also recall the case where, when the Jews had refused to listen to Paul's message about Jesus, and began scoffing at him, he left, and met at a house next door. It doesn't say so clearly, but the implication is that he was conducting meetings on the same day as the Jews were meeting in the synagogue, which of course was the Jewish Sabbath.
I found this reference while waiting for services to start tonight. Acts 18:7, the account of Paul in Corinth. But actually in some places it says that they met daily. That's a model we could think about following more.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Neto wrote:
Neto wrote:
Sorry I don't have the time right now to find the reference, but please also recall the case where, when the Jews had refused to listen to Paul's message about Jesus, and began scoffing at him, he left, and met at a house next door. It doesn't say so clearly, but the implication is that he was conducting meetings on the same day as the Jews were meeting in the synagogue, which of course was the Jewish Sabbath.
I have found my life spiritually renewed when I meet my brothers more than once a week - doesn't have to be the same people each time. We pray and talk and work on shared spiritual / material needs.

If we decided to start singing, I think we would be even more edified. What if folks with families participated too as they were able?

I found this reference while waiting for services to start tonight. Acts 18:7, the account of Paul in Corinth. But actually in some places it says that they met daily. That's a model we could think about following more.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Bootstrap wrote:Like Ernie, I think the teachings of Jesus represent a New Covenant. What Jesus said and did is centrally important for all Christians. And the parts of the Old Covenant that matter for us are the ones that Jesus, Paul, and others affirmed in the New Covenant.

How do you read the book of Galatians on this?
My initial response is:

So does Jesus affirm the Sabbath in the New Covenant by teaching about what were acceptable Sabbath day practices (like healing and doing good)?

However, read on for further thoughts of mine on the subject in response to your question.

I read the situation in Galatia as follows: there were Judaizers that were telling the Galatian Gentile believers that they had to be circumcised in order to be justified. Paul counters by saying that it is only through faith in Christ that we can be justified. The law wasn't intended to free people from sin but to make them aware of sin. When we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ, he frees us from our slavery to sin and we die to the law and are made alive in the Spirit. When we are living completely in the Spirit, we are no longer under the law and no longer have to observe days and months and seasons and years (which probably includes the Sabbath day). Yet, if we use our freedom from the law to gratify the flesh and pursue fleshly desires, we will lose our status of being justified and our inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

I think Paul envisions true faith as one that will, in a sense, automatically fulfill all the requirements of the moral law through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. I don't think Paul ever envisions Christianity as a freedom from the law so that we are free to live a life of sin and still inherit the Kingdom. He seemed to be fighting against those who put the cart before the horse and were promoting justification through a self-righteous observance of the law by one's own power, rather than recognition that only faith in Christ can free us from slavery to sin, that same faith which, empowered by the Holy Spirit, causes us to fulfill the moral requirements of the law through loving your neighbor as yourself.

I do wonder, however, if Jesus's teachings were pointing toward a different understanding of the Sabbath similar to Hebrews 4:9, which seems to picture the Sabbath as an eternal rest that we are encouraged to strive to enter into. Perhaps, Sabbath, as part of the law, which was a guardian and tutor, was there to paint the picture of the rest that we will one day enjoy eternally in heaven. If that is the case, I would hate to say that we Christians no longer observe the Sabbath, but rather I would want to say that our Sabbath day of rest is waiting for us when we get to heaven. Just as the sacrificial system pointed to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, perhaps the Sabbath day pointed to the eternal Sabbath rest we Christians will enjoy in heaven, and I do look forward to observing that time of rest.

Good question, Boot. It really helped me to think through this issue for myself. However, I would welcome feedback and critique of what I have shared in this post.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Neto wrote:I found this reference while waiting for services to start tonight. Acts 18:7, the account of Paul in Corinth. But actually in some places it says that they met daily. That's a model we could think about following more.
To me, this does not say much about when Christians should meet to worship:
Acts 18:7 wrote:5 When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Adam wrote:I do wonder, however, if Jesus's teachings were pointing toward a different understanding of the Sabbath similar to Hebrews 4:9, which seems to picture the Sabbath as an eternal rest that we are encouraged to strive to enter into. Perhaps, Sabbath, as part of the law, which was a guardian and tutor, was there to paint the picture of the rest that we will one day enjoy eternally in heaven. If that is the case, I would hate to say that we Christians no longer observe the Sabbath, but rather I would want to say that our Sabbath day of rest is waiting for us when we get to heaven. Just as the sacrificial system pointed to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, perhaps the Sabbath day pointed to the eternal Sabbath rest we Christians will enjoy in heaven, and I do look forward to observing that time of rest.

Good question, Boot. It really helped me to think through this issue for myself. However, I would welcome feedback and critique of what I have shared in this post.
I think you have a good sermon there, Adam. This is really good.
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Bootstrap wrote:
Neto wrote:I found this reference while waiting for services to start tonight. Acts 18:7, the account of Paul in Corinth. But actually in some places it says that they met daily. That's a model we could think about following more.
To me, this does not say much about when Christians should meet to worship:
Acts 18:7 wrote:5 When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
I didn't say that it tells us anything about when we SHOULD meet. I didn't say it in these recent posts, but I always maintain that we cannot derive doctrine from narrative. The discussion had wandered off into the question of when the early church worshiped, and when the (non-Jewish) church began to worship on Sunday, instead of the Sabbath. Maybe I shouldn’t have brought up this example – I did so because others were bringing up texts where it appeared to me that they felt it indicated that the Church had already adopted Sunday worship in the NT period. If this were clearly so, and if Scriptural statements were made in conjunction with these historical accounts to the effect that “This is the way we should do this”, then it would be instructive. But there aren’t any such statements, and so it is only informative regarding what took place in these isolated cases. (My comment about “a model we could think about following more” refers to daily meeting together. I don’t think that one or two times a week is enough, but I wouldn’t make a “doctrine & practice” statement out of it, just that meeting more often than once a week has benefits for the church body.)
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Re: Observing the Sabbath

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Neto wrote:I didn't say that it tells us anything about when we SHOULD meet. I didn't say it in these recent posts, but I always maintain that we cannot derive doctrine from narrative.
Exactly.

And personally, I don't particularly want to criticize someone who practices the Jewish Sabbath today. I don't think that's what the early Church did, and I think it can be helpful to understand why. But in this thread, we are not discussing clear New Testament commandments. On either side of the fence.
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