When did Jesus die?

General Christian Theology

When did Jesus die?

 
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ohio jones
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When did Jesus die?

Post by ohio jones »

JohnHurt wrote:
ohio jones wrote:
JohnHurt wrote:Christ died on Passover, not Easter.
Are there actually people who believe that Christ died on Easter, or are we just getting carried away with the flow of rhetoric?
I think the thread is about eating ham on Easter, or lamb on Passover.

But if you started a poll, you might find that most people believe that Christ died on Good Friday, and was resurrected on Easter Sunday, which is three days and three nights, somehow. (Matthew 12:40)
I would like to find out if "most people" on MN are like "most people" generally.
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by MaxPC »

From Mark 15
33 And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” 35 And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Elijah.” 36 And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.” 37 And Jesus uttered a loud cry and breathed his last. 38 And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he[h] breathed his last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”

40 There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41 When he was in Galilee, they followed him and ministered to him, and there were also many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem.

Jesus Is Buried
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph. 46 And Joseph bought a linen shroud, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.
MY NOTE: The Jewish measurement of days is from sundown to sundown. The Jewish Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday evening and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. The sixth hour is noon and the 9th hour is 3 pm. Based upon that info, we conclude that Jesus died at the 9th hour (3 pm) on Friday (the day of Preparation) as they were also in a hurry to take Him down before the beginning of the Sabbath (sundown of Friday).
YMMV :D
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Valerie
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Valerie »

MaxPC wrote:From Mark 15
33 And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” 35 And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Elijah.” 36 And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.” 37 And Jesus uttered a loud cry and breathed his last. 38 And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he[h] breathed his last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”

40 There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41 When he was in Galilee, they followed him and ministered to him, and there were also many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem.

Jesus Is Buried
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph. 46 And Joseph bought a linen shroud, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.
MY NOTE: The Jewish measurement of days is from sundown to sundown. The Jewish Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday evening and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. The sixth hour is noon and the 9th hour is 3 pm. Based upon that info, we conclude that Jesus died at the 9th hour (3 pm) on Friday (the day of Preparation) as they were also in a hurry to take Him down before the beginning of the Sabbath (sundown of Friday).
YMMV :D
Yes- and for some reason, the Orthodox celebration of Pascha (or Easter) isn't always at the same time as the rest of Christianity-this year it is at the same time, but they will never celebrate 'before' Jewish Passover- I can't remember the explanation for all of this though- I know the timing of Passover has to do with the moon? Anyways- Orthodox Christians tie the timing in with Passover to observe the Holy week between Palm Sunday & Resurrection Day.
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Josh
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Josh »

There are a couple different ways different groups of Jewish people reckon Passover and the calendar.

Westerners changed how we did our calendar a while ago. Basically, the year is not a fixed number of days, so there is really no intelligence to the idea that "Jesus arose on this day 2,000 years ago". I have to deal with 2 calendars regularly, and very occasionally a 3rd. It is eye opening to recognise that calendars and "holy days" are just cultural, no matter how much some people try to claim noticing certain days pleases God.
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JohnHurt
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by JohnHurt »

I voted twice, once for Wednesday, and once for Passover.

If Christ was buried at sunset on Wednesday, and arose at sunset on Saturday, then a full 3 days and 3 nights could be accomplished.

Thursday would have been a "high day" (John 19:31) or the yearly sabbath of the first day of unleavened bread, and not the weekly sabbath on Saturday.

Friday was not a sabbath, but was the day the women purchased spices for anointing the body.

Saturday, as it began to dawn (twilight), really should be translated as "dusk", before the first day of the week began at evening, is when Matthew records that our Lord arose. Remember that the Hebrew day began at sunset.

In the other gospel accounts on Sunday morning, our Lord had already left the tomb. Only Matthew records the resurrection on Saturday evening. And it was always on Saturday where it is recorded that our Lord performed His greatest miracles.
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Neto »

Valerie wrote:... for some reason, the Orthodox celebration of Pascha (or Easter) isn't always at the same time as the rest of Christianity....
I recall that the calendar in the Russian Empire was 4 days different than the Western calendar. (This from a book my Dad put together years ago regarding our family history. Birth, marriage & death dates were marked as adjusted or as uncertain, depending on the sources available.) Maybe this had something to do with the Russian Orthodox church, I don't know.
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Josh
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Josh »

Neto wrote:
Valerie wrote:... for some reason, the Orthodox celebration of Pascha (or Easter) isn't always at the same time as the rest of Christianity....
I recall that the calendar in the Russian Empire was 4 days different than the Western calendar. (This from a book my Dad put together years ago regarding our family history. Birth, marriage & death dates were marked as adjusted or as uncertain, depending on the sources available.) Maybe this had something to do with the Russian Orthodox church, I don't know.
Orthodox countries never adopted the Gregorian reforms Catholic countries did in the late 16th century. (Neither did Amish.)

Orthodox had their own reform in 1923 but it everyone adopted it.

Ultimately, following Jesus isn't about calendars, weeks, moons, springtimes, and harvests. You could live on Mars and still follow Jesus.
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Josh
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Josh »

JohnHurt wrote:Friday was not a sabbath, but was the day the women purchased spices for anointing the body.
What we call "Friday" is indeed when Sabbath starts. 1st century Jewish people thought of days starting at ending at dusk. Many still do today. So, for example, Passover is a national holiday in Israel. Most employers let off work last Monday by early afternoon.

Our culture has entirely different ideas of what a day is. Our day starts when you wake up and ends when you go to bed. If you aren't asleep, we use midnight to define the start and end of the day, which is the opposite of high noon.

Neither approach is mandated in scripture. The Israelites came out of a pagan culture which cared a lot about days, years, seasons, and holy days. God let them keep those aspects of their culture.
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Sudsy »

ohio jones wrote: I would like to find out if "most people" on MN are like "most people" generally.
I didn't want to possibly be "most people" generally so I voted "other". :)
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Neto
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Re: When did Jesus die?

Post by Neto »

Josh wrote:
Neto wrote:
Valerie wrote:... for some reason, the Orthodox celebration of Pascha (or Easter) isn't always at the same time as the rest of Christianity....
I recall that the calendar in the Russian Empire was 4 days different than the Western calendar. (This from a book my Dad put together years ago regarding our family history. Birth, marriage & death dates were marked as adjusted or as uncertain, depending on the sources available.) Maybe this had something to do with the Russian Orthodox church, I don't know.
Orthodox countries never adopted the Gregorian reforms Catholic countries did in the late 16th century. (Neither did Amish.)

Orthodox had their own reform in 1923 but it everyone adopted it.

Ultimately, following Jesus isn't about calendars, weeks, moons, springtimes, and harvests. You could live on Mars and still follow Jesus.
Just to be clear, I'm wasn't talking about the church calendar; the actual dates on the calendar were 4 days different. (If I recall correctly) This had to do with adjustments that Western countries made to get the calendar back in sync with the lunar events, the Spring Equinox, etc. (Maybe you are referring to the same thing.)
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