Re: Disordered Cults
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:23 pm
This is a good overview.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.
This is written by Sam Vaknin, whose Ph.D. is in physics, and writes from his own experiences as someone with narcissistic disorder. He says that most academics in the field do not accept many of his views, but his model is interesting. Here is the summary from Wikipedia:MaxPC wrote:This is a good overview.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.
I don't know much about narcissism, but I do think that online forums are an ideal place for people to create an "Internet self", which may not match real life. If people claim credentials, or claim to live a particular way, or tell us about their communities, we should get some details on their credentials, the way they actually live. Surely someone knows someone who knows someone who can tell us more. Surely there are real places with real addresses that can be identified. If there are websites, surely we can examine the pictures and see if they are what they claim to be. If we are given some history, surely we can examine it to see if the history checks out. If someone makes claims about what a church teaches, surely we can look at their official church teaching to see if these claims are true. Vaknin says that a narcissist will lash out against anyone who threatens this false self, and goes into some detail about how a narcissist is likely to do so. I am not sure if this is the same thing as the DSM describes as narcissism, I suspect it does overlap with what some cult leaders do, but it's not just cult leaders.Views on narcissism
In his view, narcissists have lost their "true self", the core of their personality, which has been replaced by delusions of grandeur, a "false self". Therefore, he believes, they cannot be healed, because they do not exist as real persons, only as reflections: "The False Self replaces the narcissist's True Self and is intended to shield him from hurt and narcissistic injury by self-imputing omnipotence ... The narcissist pretends that his False Self is real and demands that others affirm this confabulation," meanwhile keeping his real-life imperfect true self under wraps.
So we should ask for evidence of those achievements, make sure that vivid claims are true, etc. A narcissist should be held accountable to normal standards of truth.MaxPC wrote:1. Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
So we should be aware that some things we are being told are merely fantasies, stories that the narcissist likes to project himself into.MaxPC wrote:Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;
So we should avoid creating special rules to protect that person from normal interactions with others who may threaten his fantasy world.MaxPC wrote:3. Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);
OK, maybe just ignoring that person a lot more would be helpful.MaxPC wrote:4. Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);
OK, how do we avoid doing that?MaxPC wrote:He feeds of other people, who hurl back at him an image that he projects to them. This is their sole function in his world: to reflect, to admire, to admire, to applaud, to detest – in a word, to assure him that he exists.
So immediately complying with those demands is really a negative thing, isn't it? It just feeds this behavior.MaxPC wrote:5. Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations;
So we should ask this person to participate in the work of relationships.MaxPC wrote:He considers his very existence as sufficiently nourishing and sustaining (of others). He feels entitled to the best others can offer without investing in maintaining relationships or in catering to the well-being of his ‘suppliers’.
Obviously, we need to resist that.MaxPC wrote:6. Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
This characteristic is striking (no pun intended) because there seems to be a greater number of people exhibiting these symptoms in the past year. It makes me wonder how much of a role it plays in the behaviors of Internet stalkers, political tantrums, and increased numbers of murders?9. Arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.
“That which has cosmic implications calls for cosmic reactions. A person with an inflated sense of self-import, reacts in an exaggerated manner to threats, greatly inflated by his imagination and by the application of his personal myth.”
“Narcissists live in a state of constant rage, repressed aggression, envy and hatred. They firmly believe that everyone is like them. As a result, they are paranoid, suspicious, scared and erratic.”
So you would expect someone like this to think other people live in a state of constant rage, repressed aggression, envy and hatred. You would expect someone like this to be live in a state of constant rage, repressed aggression, envy and hatred. None of us is a great judge of ourselves, but the people around me certainly would not describe me that way. Do you read my posts that way?MaxPC wrote:This characteristic is striking (no pun intended) because there seems to be a greater number of people exhibiting these symptoms in the past year. It makes me wonder how much of a role it plays in the behaviors of Internet stalkers, political tantrums, and increased numbers of murders?9. Arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.
“That which has cosmic implications calls for cosmic reactions. A person with an inflated sense of self-import, reacts in an exaggerated manner to threats, greatly inflated by his imagination and by the application of his personal myth.”
“Narcissists live in a state of constant rage, repressed aggression, envy and hatred. They firmly believe that everyone is like them. As a result, they are paranoid, suspicious, scared and erratic.”
I found this quite fascinating, as it describes (from my own and from other ex-members observations) the characteristics of the former elder of the Bruderhof Communities. In a real sense it gives me some hope for reform of the organization if the cult-like characteristics were a result of the leader's personality disorder. Though I have long observed of the Bruderhof a "group neurosis" that reflects the neurosis of the top leader. It is as if the personality of the leader becomes the personality of the organization, making me wonder if the Bruderhof is incurably corrupted.MaxPC wrote:This is a good overview.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.
Which characteristics did you see in them? How did that play out?Wayne in Maine wrote:I found this quite fascinating, as it describes (from my own and from other ex-members observations) the characteristics of the former elder of the Bruderhof Communities. In a real sense it gives me some hope for reform of the organization if the cult-like characteristics were a result of the leader's personality disorder. Though I have long observed of the Bruderhof a "group neurosis" that reflects the neurosis of the top leader. It is as if the personality of the leader becomes the personality of the organization, making me wonder if the Bruderhof is incurably corrupted.MaxPC wrote:This is a good overview.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.
Everyone wondered the same thing about a CC religious order in recent years. Fortunately the Magisterium sent in an Apostolic Administrator who cleared out the support structure for the dysfunctional leader and put new leadership in place through a fair election. A lot of prayer and hope out there that this can and will be saved as there were some very good priests in that order. Some left and became incardinated in (assigned to) a diocese. There was a grace that came from that situation: awareness of cult personalities and the warning signs of a cult were placed front and center within Catholic conversations.Wayne in Maine wrote:I found this quite fascinating, as it describes (from my own and from other ex-members observations) the characteristics of the former elder of the Bruderhof Communities. In a real sense it gives me some hope for reform of the organization if the cult-like characteristics were a result of the leader's personality disorder. Though I have long observed of the Bruderhof a "group neurosis" that reflects the neurosis of the top leader. It is as if the personality of the leader becomes the personality of the organization, making me wonder if the Bruderhof is incurably corrupted.MaxPC wrote:This is a good overview.
Personality characteristics of a cult leader.