Disordered Cults

General Christian Theology
MaxPC
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by MaxPC »

The following was just posted on Sunday. What does everyone think of the definition of cult-like behaviors described?
One of the creepiest things about religion is the tendency for those involved to drift into cult-like behaviors. When I say “cult-like behavior” I don’t simply mean a crazed, enclosed group who commit mass suicide, set up a 24/7 watch for aliens or who live on berries, granola and meditation.

Those are the wacky extremes. The underlying behaviors can manifest in every sort of religion. A subgroup develops and the members and leaders start behaving in a particularly recognizable way. They may not be extremists outwardly, but their group behavior is still cult-like.

How can you tell if a religious group is operating like a cult? It’s difficult because the people in a religious group can behave like a cult without them becoming a full-blown, identifiable religious cult.

What kind of group am I thinking of? It could be Catholic or Protestant. It could be Buddhist or Jewish or Hindu or Islamic. The behaviors are the same. It could be a small local group or a large international group. It could be a parish or a school. It could be a study group or an ecclesial community.

The difficulty is that cult-like behavior is often very similar to authentic and Spirit-filled Christian communities. A cult will often look like a good, authentic and dynamic Christian community. In fact, the cult will often out do the authentic Christian community in certain respects. Often the cult will feel more authentic, more dynamic, more spiritual and more “filled with the Spirit.”

How can you tell if a parish, a school, a community or a religious group are becoming cult-like? Again, it is very difficult because some groups that have cult-like behaviors remain at a low level of these behaviors.

So what are the danger signs?

First of all, if a religious community or a religious leader seems too good to be true–guess what? It’s probably too good to be true. That’s because group cult behavior conspires to cover up and hide away anything that tarnishes the glossy image of that “wonderful community” that all the members want so much to believe in. This is the first sign of a cult: everything is too wonderful and everyone is ready to tell you how wonderful it all is.

The cult will invariably have an amazingly good public relations operation. They will present a glossy front with 100% participation of all involved. This being the case, if your priest is a man whose faults are obvious, maybe you should be grateful. He’s real. He’s not trying to con you.

The second thing to watch out for is the leadership. The leadership of a cult will invariably be selective and exclusive. There will be a public face of the leadership, and that person will unfailingly present the nice, glossy and polished face of the organization. The public face will be squeaky clean and wonderful.

If it is a personality-based cult there may be no other leadership. However, if there is a board of directors or trustees, they will remain in the background. You may not know who they are. Their meetings will not be public. They may even have a vow of secrecy about their meetings. They will call this something nice like “a confidentiality agreement.” This means they cannot discuss what goes on behind those closed doors.

There may not be a formal leadership group at all. Instead the leader may simply have an inside circle of friends and confidantes who nobody really knows because they never have any meetings as such. The decisions are all taken in private. The leadership will be tightly controlled and it will be by invitation only. If you encounter non-transparent leadership in this way, don’t be surprised. Be suspicious.

A third trait of a cult is that complete loyalty is demanded of the followers. Dissent and criticism are not permitted. Those who dissent will be marginalized, excluded from decision-making and demonized. If the leaders cannot get rid of the dissenters they will be isolated and given a name. They will be “the troublemakers” or “the grumblers”.

The dissenters from within will be considered the most dangerous ones and you will find that there are divisions — those who are loyal followers and those who are suspected of being “disloyal” or “rebellious”. The disloyal and rebellious ones will be deemed “unspiritual” or “difficult”. In extreme cases the dissenters will become scapegoats and all the negativities of the group will be projected on to them.

A fourth characteristic of a group that has become a cult or is behaving in a cult-like manner is that there will be a persecution complex. A group of outside forces will be identified who are “the enemy”. A little fortress will be built in which all those on the inside are the “faithful ones” while all those on the outside will increasingly be demonized and feared. There will be no real effort to build bridges or get to know those on the outside. There will be no real effort to treat the outsiders as real people. Instead they are the enemy to be kept at arms’ length and against whom the faithful will usually project their fears and suspicions. At worst the enemy will have all the sins and fears and dark negativities projected on them.

The problem is that when a group is becoming cult-like it does so innocently. Nobody sets out to establish a cult. Instead, unconsciously, certain individuals start to behave in this manner and they support one another. The leadership starts to create an unrealistically wonderful religious atmosphere and those who want and need that sort of religious group will support it and feed the flames.

The faithful will set the leader up on a pedestal and declare him to be wonderful, and the leader (who needs and likes the adulation) will encourage their hero-worship. Those who object or suspect what is happening will be automatically excluded or marginalized by those who wish to perpetuate the super-wonderful world they are setting up for themselves.


It all stinks to high heaven, and I know how it works because in over fifty years of working in a range of religious groups I have seen these behaviors develop within parishes, within home prayer and praise groups, within schools, in colleges and in independent churches.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by temporal1 »

Max:
The following was just posted on Sunday. What does everyone think of the definition of cult-like behaviors described?
it seems to be a "long form" opinion that pretty well mirrors the pages in this thread.

i'm wondering about which perspective the writer has? at first, i thought he might be a generic atheist, just trying to dismiss faith of any description. by the end, i wondered what has he been doing with his life for 50 years, that would take him into so many faith settings? while remaining detached?

i don't agree that all cults begin innocently.
to me, some not innocent would be the extreme cults, like Jim Jones, mentioned in the OP, and alluded to in this piece. extremes exist, but, most would not fit an extreme definition (abusive-deadly.) the Manson group would be another extreme.

it seems, these men were "disordered" before finding followers.
i believe some are born cult-leaders, looking for a place to happen.

we lived on the west coast for a few years, early 70's. they seemed to be on every corner, different "labels," seeking followers. they presented in different ways, but many of the traits were similar. some were looking for newbies for hippie communes, a popular thing in those years. some invited us as we shopped, cashiers, etc. not Christian! anything-but. lots of quasi-Eastern-ish interpretation types. that was a crazy time. i'm glad there was no internet then. it might have been worse then than now.

but, if there's anything to this definition, and, there seems to be:
:arrow: "Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree." [Rawson]
the word is too subjective to be helpful.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by MaxPC »

temporal1 wrote:
Max:
The following was just posted on Sunday. What does everyone think of the definition of cult-like behaviors described?
it seems to be a "long form" opinion that pretty well mirrors the pages in this thread.

i'm wondering about which perspective the writer has? at first, i thought he might be a generic atheist, just trying to dismiss faith of any description. by the end, i wondered what has he been doing with his life for 50 years, that would take him into so many faith settings? while remaining detached?

i don't agree that all cults begin innocently.
to me, some not innocent would be the extreme cults, like Jim Jones, mentioned in the OP, and alluded to in this piece. extremes exist, but, most would not fit an extreme definition (abusive-deadly.) the Manson group would be another extreme.

it seems, these men were "disordered" before finding followers.
i believe some are born cult-leaders, looking for a place to happen.

we lived on the west coast for a few years, early 70's. they seemed to be on every corner, different "labels," seeking followers. they presented in different ways, but many of the traits were similar. some were looking for newbies for hippie communes, a popular thing in those years. some invited us as we shopped, cashiers, etc. not Christian! anything-but. lots of quasi-Eastern-ish interpretation types. that was a crazy time. i'm glad there was no internet then. it might have been worse then than now.

but, if there's anything to this definition, and, there seems to be:
:arrow: "Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree." [Rawson]
the word is too subjective to be helpful.
The author is a Catholic priest who was once Anglican and went "a-searching". :D
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temporal1
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by temporal1 »

MaxPC wrote: The author is a Catholic priest who was once Anglican and went "a-searching". :D
thank you. that helps.
my perception is, within the Catholic Church, the word, "cult," would have more defined meaning (?) .. for some, it might mean any believers outside the Catholic Church (?) i have read (a very little) about the Catholic Church doing exorcisms .. there is a lot that is foreign to me.

on this forum, tho, i'm continuing to wonder about whether the word is extra-Biblical, if so, then, should it be used? the general message (here) is to avoid what is not found in scriptures. is this an exception?
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by MaxPC »

temporal1 wrote:
MaxPC wrote: The author is a Catholic priest who was once Anglican and went "a-searching". :D
thank you. that helps.
my perception is, within the Catholic Church, the word, "cult," would have more defined meaning (?) .. for some, it might mean any believers outside the Catholic Church (?) i have read (a very little) about the Catholic Church doing exorcisms .. there is a lot that is foreign to me.

on this forum, tho, i'm continuing to wonder about whether the word is extra-Biblical, if so, then, should it be used? the general message (here) is to avoid what is not found in scriptures. is this an exception?
Castle and Lamborghini aren't in the Bible either :mrgreen:

In this thread we're only discussing Disordered Cults and the warning signs; the damage they do; and other aspects of these.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

temporal1 wrote: i'm wondering about which perspective the writer has? at first, i thought he might be a generic atheist, just trying to dismiss faith of any description. by the end, i wondered what has he been doing with his life for 50 years, that would take him into so many faith settings? while remaining detached?
I just took it as him sharing his experience. I am not sure how we know he was detached. Often times in order for people to observe the things he did they would have to have been attached for some time. Groups that exhibit the behavior he described put on a good front to outsiders and are very concerned about what outsiders think of them.

As a man of God he may have been in different environments to do God's work or maybe he just wanted to know what others believed.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

Peregrino wrote:
quietpilgrim wrote:Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform, often used by sociologists in indentifying cultic group behavior:

1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

2. Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clich�s, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)
This list makes me scratch my head a little. I grew up Conservative Mennonite and this description fits what I grew up with like a glove. But I've never really considered them a cult. So, are they a cult? And if not, what about them makes them different from this definition? Or am I missing something here?
As an outsider, my family and friends thought they were too. I actually looked up the signs of a cult before attending my first Sunday service to make sure I was not making a mistake. The conclusion I came to was, a cult was anything that was not following the word.

To be clear, if a group is not following the word they will not have any problem lying, hurting, or discarding others. They will have no problem doing most of the warning signs already listed in this thread. They are not worried about God, but themselves and this life. The biggest sign is the leadership. If the leadership allows this to go on.

Only you know what you were in, and if they would meet any of this.
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MaxPC
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by MaxPC »

Steve made an observation that was insightful regarding cults and so I'll repost these here.
steve-in-kville wrote:The traits that Max copied and pasted from the link sound to me like a successful cult leader! Jezebel or not...

See traits below. Notice how these can also be applied to political cults:
MaxPC wrote:In reading through the article Steve linked, I notice the author says that both men and women can exhibit these behaviors which are symptomatic of pride. The behaviors are manipulative and self-centered, always seeking to draw attention to the person for the sake of personal glory. It's a good list for those who are consciously trying to eliminate pride from their life. Here is an excerpt of the behaviors listed (from "What Are the Characteristics of the Jezebel Spirit")
Identifying The Spirit of Jezebel

Refuses to admit guilt or wrong
A person with a Jezebel spirit is will never admits wrong, unless it is a temporary admittance of guilt to gain “favor” with someone. To accept responsibility would violate the core of insecurity and pride from which it operates. When a Jezebel apologizes it is never in true repentance or acknowledgment of wrongdoing but rather “I’m sorry your feelings were hurt.”

Takes credit for everything
While a strong trait of Jezebel is to never take responsibility for his wrong actions or behavior, he also is quick to take credit for benefits for which he contributed no effort.

Uses people to accomplish its agenda
The Spirit of Jezebel lets others do its dirty work. The Jezebel gets another person’s emotions stirred up, then lets that person go into a rage. The Jezebel sits back looking innocent, saying “Who me? What did I do?” This behavior makes it difficult for even the most ardent truth seekers to pin one down. The Jezebel spirit is clever in its agenda.

Withholds information
Withholding information is one of the way a person operating under the influence of the Jezebel Spirit holds and maintain. Remember the Jezebel spirit is a form of witchcraft. Witchcraft spirits loves to control other people. A Jezebel wields power over you by knowing something you don’t know in a situation. In the eyes of a Jezebel, having information you don’t have is a powerful weapon of control.

Jezebel is threaten by Prophetic #Ministry
A person with a Jezebel spirit will do everything in its power to destroy a person with a prophetic ministry or gift. Reason being is that someone with a prophetic gift or ministry will be able to identify Jezebel Spirit and will attack it. Remember Jezebel in the Bible tried to destroy all the true prophets of #God and even tried to kill Elijah.

Volunteers for anything
A Jezebel loves to volunteer, especially for projects were he/she will be seen and can have some level of control. Although he will work hard, his motive is never pure, and eventually his secret agenda cannot be hidden.

Lies
A person with a Jezebel Spirit will lie, even when they don’t have to and are hard to detect. No one can lie better than a Jezebel. He can make you believe whatever he/she wants you to as he/she does this through manipulation. The fact that Jezebel can look you in the eye and lie just shows how strong and adamant this rebellious and recalcitrant spirit is.

Ignores people
A classic ploy of a controller is to ignore you when you disagree with him. This tactic is frequently used by leaders when someone doesn’t agree with their plans, and they isolate the person by ignoring him. Some in these situations have been ignored for months, just because they chose not to be a puppet and say to every idea or whim. This puts the person out of the leader’s grace and forces him to either “come around” to the leader’s way of thinking or be indefinitely ignored. One is not free to disagree with a controller.

Never gives credit or shows gratitude
A person with the Spirit of Jezebel will rarely give credit to someone or acknowledge another person’s actions, not even for something that turned out to greatly benefit the Jezebel. He just cannot bring himself to say thank you or to acknowledge that someone else did something right. There are those who have gone out of their way to bless a Jezebel by being the catalyst of sending him on a trip or giving a gift. Yet never will there be a thank you. This again puts the controller in a position of power. If Jezebel does, it is always to accomplish an end-game, but never from a pure #heart.

Criticizes everyone
This is a characteristic of a controller. He has to be the one who looks good, so he will quickly sharply criticize anyone who makes a suggestion or plan. Even though he likes the plan, he can only criticize it because the idea did not originate from him. Criticizing others elevates the controller in his own mind.

One-upmanship
A person with a Jezebel spirit will always upstage another person. Jezebel feels threatened by anyone who dares to steal the limelight or anyone who is a threat to his power and control. If you are with such a person and tell of your accomplishment or victory, you can be assured he will quickly tell of something he has accomplished.

Spiritualizes everything
When a controller is confronted, he commonly spiritualizes the situation, explaining it off on God. This prevents him from owning up to responsibility required of him. The implication is always, “You’ve got a problem; I don’t.”

Is insubordinate
A Jezebel never takes the side of the employer or a person in authority, unless it is a temporary action to make himself look good. He often will take credit for someone else’s idea. His main desire is for power and control. There is no conscience when an opportunity for recognition presents itself.

Is pushy and domineering
A person with a Jezebel spirit pressures you to do things, seemingly ripping from you your right to choose or make a decision for yourself. He makes others feel as though they don’t have enough sense to think for themselves.

Uses the element of surprise
A Jezebel’s main thrust is to be in control, and a large part of control is catching you off guard. Therefore, the element of surprise works well when he shows up a day early for a meeting, etc.

Sows seeds of discord
A Jezebel will continually belittle another person in the most subtle way. The strategy is to “gain” control by minimizing the value of another person. It is common for him to tell half-truths to implicate another person in your eyes. By sowing these seeds, he hopes to eventually reap a harvest of destruction, improving his position of power.

Commands attention
A Jezebel likes to be the center of attention and doesn’t like to see others recognized and lauded. When someone else is recognized, he will quickly undermine the person’s accomplishments verbally.

Is vengeful
Since a Jezebel is never wrong, if you contradict or confront one, get ready to become his worst enemy. As long as you are in agreement with him, all is fine. But if you confront or challenge him, then look out. You are the target of his fiercest venom. A Jezebel will stop at nothing to destroy your reputation.

Attempts to make you look like you’re the Jezebel
A Jezebel spirit is difficult to pin down. If the person is near to being confronted, he or she will skillfully twist the entire situation, trying to make the innocent person look like the one who is attempting to control. As always, the Jezebel will do anything to look like the one who is right.

Insinuates disapproval
A Jezebel will often imply disapproval to those under his or her control. The controlled person feels no freedom to express an opinion, for fear of disapproval. This often manifests in a #marriage or in a working environment.

Knows it all
A Jezebel is usually blatant regarding his knowledge of everything. Quick to express his opinion in any area, he leaves little room for anyone to point out the other side of an issue. He has made idols of his opinions.

Is ambitious
The Jezebel has strong desire, but all for self. “I want what I want when I want it,” describes his worship of self-will. A Jezebel leader will never use the words, “We have a vision,” but rather, “My vision is thus and so.”

Gift giving
A person with the spirit of Jezebel loves to give gifts, this again is a form of control as the Jezebel uses gifts to make you feel obligated to him. It also compromises the victim in speaking against him or her or to confront truth about that person. I am not saying that everyone who gives gifts are Jezebel or does this to control others, but gift giving is a tactic used by those who have a need to control.

Is independent
No one has input in a Jezebel’s life. He fraternizes with no one unless it is to get you to “cooperate” with his agenda.

Is religious
A Jezebel dwells in the local church but doesn’t like authority unless he is in the position of authority. He or she will behave like they are holy or a Christian, but they are not.

Hides
We all want to believe that the person with a Jezebel spirit is delivered. The person may seem “normal” for a period, exhibiting none of the classic traits. Then suddenly without warning a situation will arise, once again with the spirit taking control and wreaking havoc over lives. Hopefully, true repentance will come. Only then will the person be delivered.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by steve-in-kville »

We were part of a Mennonite church that was a loving and caring group... until the leadership changed. If the bishop (or his wife) didn't like you, you were toast. Within 10 years the group wasn't too far from a cult. You asked questions, you got punished. If you tried to leave on your own, you got punished. It was nothing for them to have 25% turnover in a few months time. It was a real train wreck last I heard.
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Re: Disordered Cults

Post by MaxPC »

steve-in-kville wrote:We were part of a Mennonite church that was a loving and caring group... until the leadership changed. If the bishop (or his wife) didn't like you, you were toast. Within 10 years the group wasn't too far from a cult. You asked questions, you got punished. If you tried to leave on your own, you got punished. It was nothing for them to have 25% turnover in a few months time. It was a real train wreck last I heard.
All cults are like that. I call it spiritual carnage with a devastating effect on souls. Cult groups can be found in every denomination too and only seem to last less than 50 years.
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