What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

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gcdonner
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What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by gcdonner »

2Co_12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was Paul referring to when he spoke of his "thorn in the flesh"?
Was it a physical ailment that Satan had afflicted him with?
Was it demonic oppression?
Was it a person/people who constantly goaded him?
Was it mental illness?
Epilepsy?
Ophthalmia?
Sensual temptations?
Depression?
Please share your thoughts, with scriptural support for your opinion.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by JimFoxvog »

The only thing said is "a messenger of Satan." That sounds like demonic oppression to me. Whether it took the form of any of the possibilities you mention seems quite speculative to me.
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Sudsy
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by Sudsy »

My guess -

It was a re-occuring thought (a message from a messenger) that was an annoying temptation and it had to do with his gift of revelation. Perhaps it was to take pride in how God was using him in ministry.

I believe this was given to him through a satanic angel. Paul might have perceived or worded it as being God given, much like how Job said what was happening to him was directly God when it was God allowing satan's activity on Job.

Perhaps it was what many have experienced, the temptation to take pride in a gift of the Holy Spirit.

At these times Paul needed and experienced God's enabling power (God's grace) to ward off this thought but it just kept coming. God was not going to step in and protect Paul from it as through this evil attack God was working out good, which was for Paul to rely on God all the more. Satan and our flesh are at war against the spirit. Once Paul saw the benefit of God not taking this away, he gladly accepted this 'thorn' as it could do the opposite in his life to what satan was trying to accomplish.

Reminds me of how in all things, in the lives of those called to God's purpose, God is working out the good.
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MaxPC
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by MaxPC »

gcdonner wrote:
2Co_12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was Paul referring to when he spoke of his "thorn in the flesh"?
Was it a physical ailment that Satan had afflicted him with?
Was it demonic oppression?
Was it a person/people who constantly goaded him?
Was it mental illness?
Epilepsy?
Ophthalmia?
Sensual temptations?
Depression?
Please share your thoughts, with scriptural support for your opinion.
Great topic, George :D

Personally, I'm glad that Paul never specifically identified his "thorn". He was an outstanding teacher and through the use of a generalized reference it encourages every Believer to examine himself for his own "thorns" and besetting sins. It becomes the personal problem we all have, not just Paul.

My contribution to that list is "pride": Paul was a very well educated Pharisee. As happens, this comes with a certain amount of self-pride derived from his elevated social status. We all know how dangerous pride can be, causing the fall of angels; and it's often used by satan to ensnare the Faithful.

Paul was always humbling himself verbally, almost as if seeking an antidote to his pride: "Least of the apostles; least of the saints; that gives me no ground for boasting..." He does this multiple times in his various epistles.

Lastly, it may well be that Paul was beset with all of these temptations that are listed and the "thorn" itself was the repeated assault from satan using various means on Paul.

It's a discussion that's occupied us for centuries past and into the future until our dying day ... if ever we live that long. :lol:
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gcdonner
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by gcdonner »

What are the implications of the following passage?
Num 33:55  But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. 
Does this give us a hint at what/who Paul was referring to?
I prefer interpreting scripture with scripture when at all possible.
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silentreader
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by silentreader »

gcdonner wrote:
2Co_12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was Paul referring to when he spoke of his "thorn in the flesh"?
Was it a physical ailment that Satan had afflicted him with?
Was it demonic oppression?
Was it a person/people who constantly goaded him?
Was it mental illness?
Epilepsy?
Ophthalmia?
Sensual temptations?
Depression?
Please share your thoughts, with scriptural support for your opinion.
Was he speaking of flesh in the strictly physical sense, or in the spiritual sense?
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gcdonner
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by gcdonner »

silentreader wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
2Co_12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was Paul referring to when he spoke of his "thorn in the flesh"?
Was it a physical ailment that Satan had afflicted him with?
Was it demonic oppression?
Was it a person/people who constantly goaded him?
Was it mental illness?
Epilepsy?
Ophthalmia?
Sensual temptations?
Depression?
Please share your thoughts, with scriptural support for your opinion.
Was he speaking of flesh in the strictly physical sense, or in the spiritual sense?
A very good question. What would you glean from scripture in other passages that use similar language?
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Sudsy
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by Sudsy »

gcdonner wrote:What are the implications of the following passage?
Num 33:55  But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. 
Does this give us a hint at what/who Paul was referring to?
I prefer interpreting scripture with scripture when at all possible.
I don't think so. I think a 'thorn in our side' is just an expression of an annoyance and could be used regarding any annoyance. I don't see any linkage with where it is used elsewhere other than referring to an annoyance.
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silentreader
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by silentreader »

gcdonner wrote:
silentreader wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
What was Paul referring to when he spoke of his "thorn in the flesh"?
Was it a physical ailment that Satan had afflicted him with?
Was it demonic oppression?
Was it a person/people who constantly goaded him?
Was it mental illness?
Epilepsy?
Ophthalmia?
Sensual temptations?
Depression?
Please share your thoughts, with scriptural support for your opinion.
Was he speaking of flesh in the strictly physical sense, or in the spiritual sense?
A very good question. What would you glean from scripture in other passages that use similar language?
Without doing anything in depth, my impression is that both are involved at the same time.
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silentreader
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Re: What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"?

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
gcdonner wrote:What are the implications of the following passage?
Num 33:55  But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. 
Does this give us a hint at what/who Paul was referring to?
I prefer interpreting scripture with scripture when at all possible.
I don't think so. I think a 'thorn in our side' is just an expression of an annoyance and could be used regarding any annoyance. I don't see any linkage with where it is used elsewhere other than referring to an annoyance.
Depending how we handle annoyances, they can have spiritual consequences.
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