Easter ham or Passover lamb?

General Christian Theology
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23829
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by Josh »

Today someone requested I eat with them. When I met them, it turns out they decided to go to a buffet.

I partook of lamb and beef. The lamb was very dry.
0 x
KingdomBuilder
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Affiliation: church of Christ

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by KingdomBuilder »

We had turkey. Skipped the ham cause I just don't like it...
0 x
Ponder anew what the Almighty can do
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by Sudsy »

JohnHurt wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
John, a few questions as I'm curious as to your view of believers who do not practise as you do in this area -

1) Do you agree that despite other believer's opinion on feast days, that God has accepted them into His family ?
2) If yes, do they not have the Holy Spirit in them to lead them in how to follow Christ ?
3) Are you suggesting that believers that treat one day the same as another in how they worship God, worship in vain ?
4) Are those who worship God at Christmas and Easter worshipping God in vain ?
5) Are these traditions doctrines being taught as commandments that must be observed ?
6) What do you believe will be the consequences of not following feast days or some man formed celebration days ?
Sudsy, thank you for your questions, here are my answers:

1. Judge not, that ye be not judged. I am not in a position to state God's acceptance of someone, only to point out what He has said.

2. Not everyone has the Holy Spirit, some have the spirit of the antiChrist - that is, something in place of Christ, something more dear to them than the truth.

3. Following the commandments of men as a replacement for what God has commanded would violate Christ's statement in Matthew 15:9. He also said a few verses later that we should leave these people alone, I suppose I should try to understand that better. (Matthew 15:14)

4. You will have to determine how Christmas and Easter originated. Did these days come from God, or from man?

5. With some, their traditions as doctrines actually carry more weight that what is written in the Bible. Infant baptism comes to mind, along with certain days, like December 25th, or Easter Ham.

6. Matthew 7:21-23 is the passage that always frightened me. I studied it, and found that the word "iniquity" is really "breaking God's Law." I have been trying to stay on the "safe side" ever since.

And Sudsy, if I am wrong in what I understand, then I have only lost my participation in a few events, like Easter egg hunts and the like. But if I am correct in what I understand, and I go back to following what is popular, then I have the problem of Luke 12:47.

I think our God is merciful, and long suffering with us, and may only give us as much truth as we can accept at one time. This has been quite a journey.

Blessings to you in your studies.
Thanks John for your answers. My observation is that not everyone here provides answers when asked about something. They may respond but often dodge the questions. Myself, I would prefer an 'I don't know' response rather than dodging the question but that is just me. We can't make everyone respond the way we would like them to.

I started to respond to each of your responses but I will wait until more is said on this and related topics. I respect your desire to follow Jesus the best you can. Basically, I interpret many things that Jesus said and did as a transitioning period from the OC to the NC. Dealing with the Jews and their expectations of the Kingdom. How much of the OC practises carried over into NC practises has been debated for centuries.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by Sudsy »

I had tuna fish sandwiches as we were quite busy visiting at the hospital and attending our corporate gathering. Just about time for a late snack.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5222
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by ohio jones »

Sudsy wrote:I had tuna fish sandwiches as we were quite busy visiting at the hospital and attending our corporate gathering. Just about time for a late snack.
What fish has a job in the music industry?
The piano tuna.

If you didn't have bread to make sandwiches, what utensil would be best to eat it with?
A tuning fork.

Did you know that eating tuna fish is good for your eyesight?
It helps you C#.
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
User avatar
JimFoxvog
Posts: 2891
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:56 pm
Location: Northern Illinois
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by JimFoxvog »

I cooked lamb for a Resurrection Day feast with other church families. I wish everyone would use a meat thermometer to keep it from being too dry. USDA says 145°F is the safe done temperature (let it rest 3 minutes before cutting.) That's a little too pink for some folks liking, so I went up to 150°. I'd go with 145° if I were just cooking for myself.
0 x
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by JohnHurt »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
I would say, they are both equally inspired, and there is ultimately there is no final conflict between the two.

Acts 15:27-29 herefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

What you suggest seems to go far beyond "these things."

J.M.
Dear Judas Maccabeus,

The verse you have quoted in Acts 15:27-29 is a good representation of Paul, for Paul would not receive instruction from the Apostles.

For Paul does not follow the instructions from the Apostles that we are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols. Paul argues that if you have "knowledge" or "gnosis", you can sit and eat meat offered to idols in an idol temple. (1 Cor 8:10). But someone else who doesn't have this hidden "gnosis" will perish. Paul said It is all about what you think inside your mind, not what you do with the physical actions performed by your body - much like you are saved by faith, not works, (Eph 2:8-9) while Christ said you are saved by your physical actions of keeping the 10 Commandments. (Mark 10:17-19)

So Paul believes that with "gnosis" or knowledge, you can eat meat offered to idols, and even purchase this meat in the meat market, which provides an income to the idol temples. Paul's purchases of meat from these temples is providing a financial support for idol worship, and gives the same effect as offering a sacrifice to them, financially.

Christ said we should not eat meat offered to Idols. (Rev 2:14, Rev 2:20). So not only did Paul contradict the Apostles, he contradicted Christ.

Paul also contradicted Exodus 22:20, and his actions show him to be the prophet of Deuteronomy 13.

Christ said in Revelation 2:14 that what Paul is teaching is the doctrine of Balaam, which cast a stumbling bloc before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols. (Rev 2:14) This is also what a woman of Thyatira called "Jezebel" (Rev 2:20) taught, which was to eat meat sacrificed to idols. I think Balaam is a code word for Paul, and Jezebel is a name for an early convert made by Paul (Acts 16:14).

And in addition to teaching us to eat meat offered to idols, they also taught fornication, as Paul did in 1 Cor 7:15, when he said a person can get married again if their unbelieving spouse departs.

(15) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

That is, if you have an unbelieving husband, and they depart, you are not under bondage to remain single but you can get married again. Christ did not tell us that if someone was an unbeliever, he could be put away from his wife. Christ said:

Mark 10:
(11) And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

(12) And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Paul is not superior to Christ. And Paul does not have the credentials to speak about marriage, having never been married, and being unwilling to accept clear instructions from the Apostles about not eating meat offered to idols.

I think that Paul is the person that Christ refers to as someone dismissed by the Church of Ephesus as a false apostle:

Revelation 2:
(2) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Who else could be put on trial by the church at Ephesus for saying they were an Apostle, but were not, but Paul? And why are all of the churches that are being corrected by Christ in Revelation 2 and 3 the same churches where Paul had his ministry?

So here is my question:

How, and when, did Paul become an Apostle?

Did Paul not have to follow the same requirements for Matthias to become an Apostle, such as being voted by the other Apostles, (Acts 1:26), or that an Apostle had to be someone that had been with Christ beginning from the baptism of John and until the day of the Ascension? (Acts 1:21-22)

The Bible clearly states that there can be only 12 Apostles, not 13. (Rev 21:14)

Yet Paul not only singularly calls himself a 13th Apostle, but also claims that his friends Titus (2 Cor 8:23) and Epaphroditus (Phillipians 2:25) are also "messengers", or more accurately the 14th and 15th "Apostles" to the churches. The Douay Rheims Catholic Bible is one of the few versions that has these verses translated correctly:

8:23 Either for Titus, who is my companion and fellow labourer towards you, or our brethren, the apostles of the churches, the glory of Christ.

2:25 But I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother and fellow labourer, and fellow soldier, but your apostle, and he that hath ministered to my wants.

Paul is setting up these false "Apostles" to the churches, just as he set himself up as an Apostle. And there is only 12, not 50 of them.

And if you want to tell me that Paul became an Apostle when he was given a commission by Christ to preach to the Gentiles, then when was this commission given?

Was it given by Christ to Ananias, not Paul in Acts 9:15 (which I suppose would not count as an Apostleship), or did Paul receive this commission from Christ while in a trance in the Temple (Acts 22:17-21), or did Christ give this commission to Paul while he was on the road to Damascus? (Acts 26:17) Which version of Paul's story do you like the most?

Remember, there is no other witness that Paul ever saw Christ on the road to Damascus, other than Paul. His traveling companions either stood speechless (Acts 9:7), or they all fell to the ground (Acts 26:14), they heard a voice (Acts 9:7), or they did not hear a voice (Acts 22:9). Take your pick.

Both Paul and Ananias were a single witness to themselves, which violates Deuteronomy 19:15. Paul saw Christ in the desert, and Ananias saw Christ in his secret chamber.

Christ specifically warned us about Paul and Ananias in Matthew 24:26. Christ said that when He will not come back to show Himself to just one person, but that everyone will see Him when he returns, not just Paul or Ananias.

So yes, how did Paul become an Apostle, and when did Paul become an Apostle?

If anyone has input on this point, I am interested.
0 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
Hats Off
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by Hats Off »

Would it be possible to take this issue of Paul versus everyone else to another thread? Or better yet, to another forum altogether.
0 x
User avatar
mike
Posts: 5371
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:32 pm
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by mike »

Hats Off wrote:Would it be possible to take this issue of Paul versus everyone else to another thread? Or better yet, to another forum altogether.
Mennonites, like other Anabaptists and for that matter most Christians, accept Paul's apostleship as well as the authority of his writings. Not that they agree on application and interpretation. John Hurt did a fair amount of posting on MD on this topic, and I don't know why he expects to find a listening ear on this topic on a Mennonite forum. John, I must say I appreciate the kind tone of your writing, but your view of Paul is so negative and inconsistent with historic Christian belief that I don't find any discussion about it to be interesting or profitable.
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14451
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Easter ham or Passover lamb?

Post by Bootstrap »

JimFoxvog wrote:I cooked lamb for a Resurrection Day feast with other church families. I wish everyone would use a meat thermometer to keep it from being too dry. USDA says 145°F is the safe done temperature (let it rest 3 minutes before cutting.) That's a little too pink for some folks liking, so I went up to 150°. I'd go with 145° if I were just cooking for myself.
I've never had a problem with lamb since I started using a meat thermometer.

My problem is the empty nest syndrome. This year, it was just the two of us for Easter. We made a bunch of salads and had a picnic in the park. We've been talking about what we want to do next year, we just hadn't seen this coming. The picnic was great, but next time I think we might invite someone else to join us if the kids aren't here.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Post Reply