Easter ham or Passover lamb?

[JohnHurt]

Take the Gospels. What percent of each Gospel is about Christmas? Easter? Pentecost? The Ascension?

That should tell us where to put the emphasis.

Good idea. Let's include Acts, though, to give the last two a chance.

Here are how often our modern holidays are found in the Bible.

December 25th - Zero
Reindeers - Zero
Christmas Tree - Zero, except for Jeremiah 10:1-4, so Less than Zero
Ephiphany - Zero
Easter Sunday (Computus) - Zero - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computus
Egg Laying Rabbits - Zero
EASTER HAM - ZERO
40 days of Lent - Zero
Samhain / Halloween / Trunk or Treat - Zero

Here are the Holy Convocations kept by Christ and His 12 Apostles (Leviticus 23:2)

Passover - Leviticus 23:5 (Passover lambs, etc.)

Matthew 26:2
Matthew 26:17-19
Mark 14:12-16
Luke 2:41-42
Luke 22:1
Luke 22:7-20
John 2:13-23
John 6:4
John 13:1-30
1st Cor 11:23-29

Feast of Unleavened Bread - Leviticus 23:6-8

Matt 26:17
Mark 14:12
Luke 2:41-42
Luke 22:1
Luke 22:7
Acts 20:6
1 Cor 5:6-8

Feast of First Harvest (Wave Sheaf Offering) - Leviticus 23:9-14

Matthew 9:37-38
Matthew 27:52-53
John 4:35
Romans 11:16
1st Corinthians 15:20
James 1:18
Revelation 14:4
Revelation 14:15

Feast of Pentecost - Leviticus 23:15-22

Acts 2:1-21
Acts 20:16
1st Corinthians 16:8

Feast of Trumpets - Leviticus 23:23-25

Matthew 24:30-31
1st Thess 4:16-17
Revelation 11:15

Day of Atonement - Leviticus 23:26-32

Acts 27:9

Feast of Tabernacles (Also called festival of shelters) - Leviticus 23:33-43

John 7:1-2
John 7:8
John 7:10
John 7:14
Acts 18:21

Last Great Day - Leviticus 23:36

John 7:37-38



Note: I could not find that the early church ever honored the date of our Lord's Ascension. If the Ascension is not listed as a feast day that we should keep, then it is not listed for a purpose. So by omission, we should not consider the Ascension as a feast day.

Likewise, the Birth of Christ was never celebrated as a separate yearly festival.

I believe Christ was born on the day of Atonement, in the fall of the year, and is represented by the scapegoat, as He wandered this world in lonely places bearing our sins (Leviticus 16: 22) For every feast day is a reflection of Christ, with the spring feast days associated with His first advent, and the fall feast days associated with His return. Only the Day of Atonement stands out as something that has already been accomplished by Christ, and so must be a reflection of His birth, in the fall, when the shepherds were in the fields, and at the time of taxing the harvest.

So the Day of Atonement is when I would celebrate the birth of Christ.

And these other feast days are the only yearly festivals that God gave us:

Leviticus 23:2 - Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

He also said...

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

and Yahshua said:

Matthew 15:(7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

(8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

To be on the "safe side", I would recommend that we drop these man-made innovations of Easter, Lent, and Christmas, and return to following only the feast days you find written in the Bible.

Christ really does not like the commandments of men, or when we replace His feast days with our own. When we do, we become gods, knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5)

John

[Hats Off]

oh-oh, oh-no!
Well I suppose in our Old Order world, we do not consider any of the days you mentioned as feast days. We like the idea of a type of church calendar so that the significant occurrences are remembered whether we know the exact anniversary date or not. With this calendar we do not neglect to remind ourselves and our children of events like the donkey ride into Jerusalem or the happenings when Peter and the other disciples were gathered at Pentecost, or when and how Jesus left this world. We have order and no argument but what day to keep and how to keep it. We have very little discussion about what to eat or not eat or when it is acceptable to eat. We do agree that Jesus died and we agree on the significance of His death.

[Sudsy]

To be on the "safe side", I would recommend that we drop these man-made innovations of Easter, Lent, and Christmas, and return to following only the feast days you find written in the Bible.

Christ really does not like the commandments of men, or when we replace His feast days with our own. When we do, we become gods, knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5)

John

So, I guess when Paul said - "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." - Romans 14:5, then those who treat one day the same as another are not 'safe' ? Where does it say in scripture that Jesus does not like anyone replacing His feast days ? Did Jesus really insist on feast days under the New Covenant ? I think if any of the apostles that were lead by the Spirit thought celebrating feast days was that important, they would have said so. But if a Christian is 'convinced in his own mind' that they should, then they should, right ?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Are you challenging the inspiration/Inerrency/authority of the Pauline epistles here?

J.M.

Only where Paul contradicts the teachings of Christ.

If you want a list of where Paul and Christ disagree, I will open up a thread for you.

No need, call me back when you can say:

I have a kitchen with two ovens, sinks, dishwashers and cooktops

My wife will not even touch me incidentally for about half of the month, she will not even serve me food or hand something to me.

I own four sets of dishes.

I have unscrewed the bulb from the interior light in my refrigerator beginning friday night.

Because:

Galatians 5:2+3 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

J.M.

[JohnHurt]

To be on the "safe side", I would recommend that we drop these man-made innovations of Easter, Lent, and Christmas, and return to following only the feast days you find written in the Bible.

Christ really does not like the commandments of men, or when we replace His feast days with our own. When we do, we become gods, knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5)

John

So, I guess when Paul said - "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." - Romans 14:5, then those who treat one day the same as another are not 'safe' ? Where does it say in scripture that Jesus does not like anyone replacing His feast days ? Did Jesus really insist on feast days under the New Covenant ? I think if any of the apostles that were lead by the Spirit thought celebrating feast days was that important, they would have said so. But if a Christian is 'convinced in his own mind' that they should, then they should, right ?

Here is what Christ said:

Matthew 15:(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

These different "days" that Paul is referring to, should not be man-made traditions of new days or modes of worship. If Paul is really stating that the modern man-made festivals have replaced the feast days in the Bible, then Paul is wrong and Christ is correct.

No other writer, except Paul, will make statements like Romans 14:5, or that you can be "all things to all men." I don't want to bash Paul here, but he is a single witness to statements like this. If you can find a second witness to Paul's statements, I would be amazed.

Christ said "Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." (Matthew 5:18) That includes the feast days.

As I noted above, we do not see Christ or His 12 Apostles celebrating Easter or December 25th. These are modern innovations made by men.

If you think you are morally perfect when you are "convinced in your own mind" to follow what you think is right, then you have followed in the footsteps of Adam and Eve, and know in your own mind good from evil. We need to submit ourselves to what God said is right, not what men have found fashionable and popular.

I am certain we disagree, and I respect your opinions.

John

[JohnHurt]

Are you challenging the inspiration/Inerrency/authority of the Pauline epistles here?

J.M.

Only where Paul contradicts the teachings of Christ.

If you want a list of where Paul and Christ disagree, I will open up a thread for you.

No need, call me back when you can say:

I have a kitchen with two ovens, sinks, dishwashers and cooktops

My wife will not even touch me incidentally for about half of the month, she will not even serve me food or hand something to me.

I own four sets of dishes.

I have unscrewed the bulb from the interior light in my refrigerator beginning friday night.

Because:

Galatians 5:2+3 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

J.M.

And Paul contradicts Galatians 5:2-3 in Romans 2:25-27.

Do you hold this statement by Christ to be superior to Paul?

Matthew 5:
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

(19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Or is Paul in Galatians superior to Christ in Matthew?

[Sudsy]

Here is what Christ said:

Matthew 15:(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

These different "days" that Paul is referring to, should not be man-made traditions of new days or modes of worship. If Paul is really stating that the modern man-made festivals have replaced the feast days in the Bible, then Paul is wrong and Christ is correct.

No other writer, except Paul, will make statements like Romans 14:5, or that you can be "all things to all men." I don't want to bash Paul here, but he is a single witness to statements like this. If you can find a second witness to Paul's statements, I would be amazed.

Christ said "Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." (Matthew 5:18) That includes the feast days.

As I noted above, we do not see Christ or His 12 Apostles celebrating Easter or December 25th. These are modern innovations made by men.

If you think you are morally perfect when you are "convinced in your own mind" to follow what you think is right, then you have followed in the footsteps of Adam and Eve, and know in your own mind good from evil. We need to submit ourselves to what God said is right, not what men have found fashionable and popular.

I am certain we disagree, and I respect your opinions.

John

John, a few questions as I'm curious as to your view of believers who do not practise as you do in this area -

1) Do you agree that despite other believer's opinion on feast days, that God has accepted them into His family ?
2) If yes, do they not have the Holy Spirit in them to lead them in how to follow Christ ?
3) Are you suggesting that believers that treat one day the same as another in how they worship God, worship in vain ?
4) Are those who worship God at Christmas and Easter worshipping God in vain ?
5) Are these traditions doctrines being taught as commandments that must be observed ?
6) What do you believe will be the consequences of not following feast days or some man formed celebration days ?

[Josh]

One struggle with following the law is a passage like this:

In six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on it will be put to death. You must not kindle a fire in any of your homes on the Sabbath day.

I think Jesus' words are very important, and I don't think I can follow Jesus whilst putting someone to death for working at 4:58 PM on a Friday.

[appleman2006]

THE LORD IS RISEN!!!

[Sudsy]

THE LORD IS RISEN!!!

He is risen, indeed !