Easter ham or Passover lamb?

[JohnHurt]

Are you challenging the inspiration/Inerrency/authority of the Pauline epistles here?

J.M.

Only where Paul contradicts the teachings of Christ.

If you want a list of where Paul and Christ disagree, I will open up a thread for you.

[Josh]

Are you challenging the inspiration/Inerrency/authority of the Pauline epistles here?

J.M.

Only where Paul contradicts the teachings of Christ.

If you want a list of where Paul and Christ disagree, I will open up a thread for you.

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

[Josh]

Question then- we stayed at a B & B in Holmes County Wed and it was owned by Mennonites- former Amish husband & wife grew up Mennonite- she explained alot of their beliefs at the breakfast (very interesting!) but confirmed their observance of "Ascension Day" - I know that Amish/Mennonite businesses had signs up "closed for Good Friday" and also I know that they are also closed on Ascension Day- so all these seem significant to Amish & Mennonite-
From the beginning of the Reformation era- were their individual churches like Josh's that decided to abstain from observing these?

I'm not Amish, so I can't say for sure. Amish observe a few holy days that line up with very old Catholic practice, predating the Gregorian calendar and subsequent changes. Hutterites do too as far as I know.

My own church avoids these, and most other conservative Mennonites do as well, since we were influenced by Holiness movements in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They generally had a very low view of anything liturgical or the church calendar. So we have become a people who "treat all days alike".

Since we try to obey the New Testament scriptures, we try not to judge and condemn the man who "treats some days as holy". It is very important not to "condemn your brother for whom Christ died" over "food and drink" (and calendars for holy days).

Jesus wants us to do a lot of things. But he never taught us to regard certain days as special. That's left up to congregations and individual believers. Jesus did say to remember him with the bread and cup and told us to wash one another's feet. But he never said when we have to do this.

[gcdonner]

Jesus wants us to do a lot of things. But he never taught us to regard certain days as special...

What about the example of Jesus? I suspect he never taught these things since they were forgone conclusions amongst the Jews, of whom he was one. He observed all the Feasts of the LORD, while at the same time pointing to their real meanings and his own fulfillment of them.
I think we do err when we ignore these things and miss the greater blessing, not of "observing", celebrating how Christ fulfilled them and why.
Christ never taught to worship on Sunday...
Christ taught against a hierarchy...
Christ taught against legalism...

What other things that we do today, did Christ teach against or never taught us to do?

We also need to remember that he said unless our righteousness exceeded that of the scribes and Pharisees we couldn't enter the kingdom of God...

[Hats Off]

The first Mennonite church to take these positions were the Holdemans about 160 years ago. We understand the reason for doing so but are not in agreement with them on this issue. I personally feel we make way too big a deal over Christmas, allowing the surrounding society to influence us greatly.

[Valerie]

The first Mennonite church to take these positions were the Holdemans about 160 years ago. We understand the reason for doing so but are not in agreement with them on this issue. I personally feel we make way too big a deal over Christmas, allowing the surrounding society to influence us greatly.

I personally feel like it's extremely important to celebrate the birth of Christ-
I also personally feel like it is extremely important to have a service of some kind on Good Friday & also Pascha/Resurrection Sunday/Easter-

I feel like the enemy of our soul would not want any attention on the most important events in the history of Israel, and the Church- with all the prophecies fulfilled and what this meant for mankind- God became Man- through the virgin birth- and God sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life, became the sacrificial lamb who takes the sins of the world- and satan is defeated- and the power of the Resurrection being what the Apostles took worldwide to start the New Testament Church.

HOW we do this should be significantly different than secular society, to bring Glory to God- if we don't- well I just know the kingdom of darkness hates both of these dates in particular- and would love that we don't exalt these events-

[Hats Off]

The part that always bothers me is that we follow the world in our observance of Christian holy days. Why so much fuss at Easter and Christmas, but almost nothing on Pentecost and Ascension? It seems to me we would do well to look at the significance of the days and what it is that we are remembering.

[Valerie]

The part that always bothers me is that we follow the world in our observance of Christian holy days. Why so much fuss at Easter and Christmas, but almost nothing on Pentecost and Ascension? It seems to me we would do well to look at the significance of the days and what it is that we are remembering.

In the Churches I was in for decades, we didn't celebrate Ascension or Pentecost (funny, since we were a Pentecost type of church) however when we went to the Orthodox Church for a solid year, Ascension and Pentecost are very important events as well and there are services for these. As usual, the enemy hates the holy days and has to counterfeit and distract somehow- he's always done this- I have never heard so much Scripture read or so many services in any church in my life-as they do-
which is all the more reason I do not wish to give him (satan and his realm) victory on having us treat these of the most important events- as insignificant.

I guess we all have opinions on these things, and I can imagine the brotherhood & elders in the earliest days of the church were discussing these things like we are, praying for guidance & to be led by the Holy Spirit- and so, services and observances developed- I for one place value on that- but realize we are all different.

[Josh]

The first Mennonite church to take these positions were the Holdemans about 160 years ago. We understand the reason for doing so but are not in agreement with them on this issue. I personally feel we make way too big a deal over Christmas, allowing the surrounding society to influence us greatly.

And yet gcdonner and JohnHurt have no interest in being part of the CGCM churches where they live.

Perhaps it's good to study the fruits of these things, and if you don't like the fruits, don't recreate what Holdeman did 160 years ago.

[Bootstrap]

The part that always bothers me is that we follow the world in our observance of Christian holy days. Why so much fuss at Easter and Christmas, but almost nothing on Pentecost and Ascension? It seems to me we would do well to look at the significance of the days and what it is that we are remembering.

Here's one way to measure it.

Take the Gospels. What percent of each Gospel is about Christmas? Easter? Pentecost? The Ascension?

That should tell us where to put the emphasis.