What is the fear of the Lord ?

General Christian Theology
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Sudsy »

In another thread we are talking about boasting and how Paul defines right and wrong boasting as a Christian. This topic also is one that I think may be similar in that some understand fearing God as a Christian can be a right kind of fearing or a wrong kind of fearing.

From an Anabaptist understanding, what is meant by 'the fear of the Lord'.

A couple of verses regarding this fear (and there are many). One from the OT and one from the NT -

“If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand ? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared” (Psalm 130:3-4).

“Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love” (1 John 4:17-18).
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
silentreader
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:41 pm
Affiliation: MidWest Fellowship

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:In another thread we are talking about boasting and how Paul defines right and wrong boasting as a Christian. This topic also is one that I think may be similar in that some understand fearing God as a Christian can be a right kind of fearing or a wrong kind of fearing.

From an Anabaptist understanding, what is meant by 'the fear of the Lord'.

A couple of verses regarding this fear (and there are many). One from the OT and one from the NT -

“If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand ? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared” (Psalm 130:3-4).

“Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love” (1 John 4:17-18).
Perhaps the NT example verses that should be used are
Philippians 2:12-13English Standard Version (ESV)
Lights in the World
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
0 x
Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:In another thread we are talking about boasting and how Paul defines right and wrong boasting as a Christian. This topic also is one that I think may be similar in that some understand fearing God as a Christian can be a right kind of fearing or a wrong kind of fearing.

From an Anabaptist understanding, what is meant by 'the fear of the Lord'.

A couple of verses regarding this fear (and there are many). One from the OT and one from the NT -

“If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand ? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared” (Psalm 130:3-4).

“Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love” (1 John 4:17-18).
Perhaps the NT example verses that should be used are
Philippians 2:12-13English Standard Version (ESV)
Lights in the World
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
And how would you explain that text ? What kind of fear is this and why should we tremble ?
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Sudsy »

Perhaps this might help -

What do we make of this explanation of Philippians 2:12-13 ?
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Neto
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Holmes County, Ohio
Affiliation: Gospel Haven

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Neto »

The passage that immediately came to my mind when I read this is Psalm 130:04, the 2nd part:
But with you [O Yahweh] there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared.
0 x
Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Sudsy »

Neto wrote:The passage that immediately came to my mind when I read this is Psalm 130:04, the 2nd part:
But with you [O Yahweh] there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared.
So, what do you think of these translations or paraphrases on 4b -

But you forgive us, so that we should stand in awe of you. - Good News Translation
But with you there is forgiveness, so that we can, with reverence, serve you. - NIV
But you are willing to forgive, so that you might be honored. -New English Translation
But you forgive! What an awesome thing this is! - The Living Bible

Most other bibles stayed with the word 'fear'. To me, those I have posted seem to be avoiding any thought of being afraid of God as a basis for serving/obeying Him.

I have seen where an unbeliever, when faced with how holy God is, how sinful they are and the thought of hell, gets great anxiety to be afraid of God (I know those who were born again through hell fire preaching).

But should that type of fear of God (judgment for disobedience) be the motivator for a believer in serving God ? If it does, then regard 1 John 4:18 - 'There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.' - 1 John 4:18. Does this indicate that if we believers are serving God and keeping His commandments by being afraid of God / afraid of God's judgments on us, we are immature believers ? (not made perfect in love) ?

These questions are open to everyone.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
silentreader
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:41 pm
Affiliation: MidWest Fellowship

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:In another thread we are talking about boasting and how Paul defines right and wrong boasting as a Christian. This topic also is one that I think may be similar in that some understand fearing God as a Christian can be a right kind of fearing or a wrong kind of fearing.

From an Anabaptist understanding, what is meant by 'the fear of the Lord'.

A couple of verses regarding this fear (and there are many). One from the OT and one from the NT -

“If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand ? But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared” (Psalm 130:3-4).

“Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love” (1 John 4:17-18).
Perhaps the NT example verses that should be used are
Philippians 2:12-13English Standard Version (ESV)
Lights in the World
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
And how would you explain that text ? What kind of fear is this and why should we tremble ?
This is my personal application of the passage, if I were attempting an exposition, which I'm not, I would probably word it somewhat differently:

I understand that God is Holy, but Holy beyond anything my finite mind can comprehend. And I know that grace and salvation are 'free', so to speak, but I am a reason why God decided to send His Son to die on the cross.
With these things in mind, I don't want to take for granted the work that God has done, and is continuing to do, in my life, and I do not want to allow my humanness to hinder that continuing work, but rather to co-operate with it to the fullest that I am able.
0 x
Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
Neto
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Holmes County, Ohio
Affiliation: Gospel Haven

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Neto »

Sudsy wrote:
Neto wrote:The passage that immediately came to my mind when I read this is Psalm 130:04, the 2nd part:
But with you [O Yahweh] there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared.
So, what do you think of these translations or paraphrases on 4b -

But you forgive us, so that we should stand in awe of you. - Good News Translation
But with you there is forgiveness, so that we can, with reverence, serve you. - NIV
But you are willing to forgive, so that you might be honored. -New English Translation
But you forgive! What an awesome thing this is! - The Living Bible

Most other bibles stayed with the word 'fear'. To me, those I have posted seem to be avoiding any thought of being afraid of God as a basis for serving/obeying Him.

I have seen where an unbeliever, when faced with how holy God is, how sinful they are and the thought of hell, gets great anxiety to be afraid of God (I know those who were born again through hell fire preaching).

But should that type of fear of God (judgment for disobedience) be the motivator for a believer in serving God ? If it does, then regard 1 John 4:18 - 'There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.' - 1 John 4:18. Does this indicate that if we believers are serving God and keeping His commandments by being afraid of God / afraid of God's judgments on us, we are immature believers ? (not made perfect in love) ?

These questions are open to everyone.
The rendering you gave for the NIV is interesting, because what I quoted is the old NIV. (Except for the bracket words, which I added from the context.)
0 x
Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
silentreader
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:41 pm
Affiliation: MidWest Fellowship

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by silentreader »

silentreader wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Perhaps the NT example verses that should be used are
And how would you explain that text ? What kind of fear is this and why should we tremble ?
This is my personal application of the passage, if I were attempting an exposition, which I'm not, I would probably word it somewhat differently:

I understand that God is Holy, but Holy beyond anything my finite mind can comprehend. And I know that grace and salvation are 'free', so to speak, but I am a reason why God decided to send His Son to die on the cross.
With these things in mind, I don't want to take for granted the work that God has done, and is continuing to do, in my life, and I do not want to allow my humanness to hinder that continuing work, but rather to co-operate with it to the fullest that I am able.
Actually, I thought of Ananias and Sapphira this afternoon.
Acts 5:11English Standard Version (ESV)
11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
0 x
Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
Sudsy
Posts: 5854
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: What is the fear of the Lord ?

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote: Actually, I thought of Ananias and Sapphira this afternoon.
Acts 5:11English Standard Version (ESV)
11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
So, are you saying here that the 'fear of the Lord' is the same as or includes fearing the judgment of God on a follower of Christ ? It is not just a response of awe and wonder. Peter says when they lied to Peter they were lieing to God as all sin is against God.

This reminds me of this verse in 1 Cor 11:30 which says - 'That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.' And the issue here was looking down on the poor in their congregation. Not treating them with brotherly love.

Then does this indicate that at some point God does not tolerate our willful sinning and could allow sickness or even death to come our way ?
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Post Reply