Don't Tell Me That

[MaxPC]

Inconvenience and complacency kill one's spiritual life in my experience. They are the two potent weeds that overshadow the seed (to paraphrase a parable).

Don't Tell Me That
And persecution?? “Peter began to say to him, ‘See, we have left everything and followed you.’ Jesus said, ‘Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with PERSECUTIONS (emphasis added), and in the age to come eternal life’” Mark 10:28–30.

We do not want “persecution” after our list of blessings; we have forgotten that Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are persecuted for my sake” and “Rejoice when you are persecuted” (Matthew 5:11-12). And, “If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name” (1 Peter 4:16 ESV).
We reject that as crazy; it makes no sense to us. So, when a little difficulty comes, we complain and whine. Never forget that of all the good blessings you can name that come with following Christ, we must add “persecutions”.

Lord Jesus, please forgive us from declaring our inconvenience, and someone disagreeing with us as persecution. You went to the cross for us. Your disciples died for the gospel of another King and Kingdom. Even now, millions of Your servants around the world still are being severely persecuted. We have not yet resisted to the point of shedding our blood (Hebrews 12:4). Have mercy on our complaining souls! Amen!
H. Lamar Smith
Christ Our Holy Way

[Sudsy]

To MaxPC and/or anyone else who cares to participate -

The scripture text here is sometimes used to support the prosperity gospel and is taken literally to some degree when it comes to material possessions. Yet it is not taken as giving up one wife to obtain 100 wives now in this life. So what was Jesus referring to that we will receive 100 times greater than these things listed ?

My take on this is that the people and possessions of verse 29 are literal, but the people and possessions of verse 30 are of a spiritual in nature. However, this is only for those who do sacrifice these material things 'for My sake and the gospel's'. It is not living a simple life style by giving up certain material things and not participating in the spread of the gospel. Is that not correct ?

I know the emphasis here was more on the persecution that comes with receiving this 100 fold blessing and he makes a good point that persecution comes with living 'for My sake and the gospel's' and is not just another person disagreeing with us. I would add especially other Christians. And complaining on how we are treated by having our freedoms taken away is not how Jesus said we should respond. Rather as Lamar points to other scriptures, we are to rejoice when we are persecuted. Kingdom living is a joy filled living that comes from a renewed way of viewing things.

Anyway, would be glad to hear from others on this text.

[Wade]

This is a different scripture referenced but MaxPc and Sudsy reminded me of this story:

Reading from John 5 starting at verse 37. Now I was hesitant to share these scriptures as they were pointed at Jews who rejected Christ. But I think it relates to a story I would like to share that has convicted me.

John 5:37-47
[37]And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
[38]And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
[39]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
[40]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[41]I receive not honour from men.
[42]But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
[43]I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
[44]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[45]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[46]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[47]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The story is about a man named John. Years ago John put his house up for sale and right around the same time some extended family got sick. John and his family moved into that extended family's home to help care for the children living there. John was busy in school at this time. But would get disrupted from class with events such as his wife getting into a vehicle accident in their only vehicle with another driver running a stop sign. As they were dealing with the circumstances from these events their house sold and with the finalization of the sale of their own home coming soon they made a quick decision to buy a house in town. From day one of moving into their new home the dread of making such a mistake plague his thoughts. They didn't ever feel it was a place to stay at, and finally years went by and they moved away even though their house wouldn't sell. They needed income renting the home but had renter problems. Some were late on payment, one flooded the basement 4 inches deep in sewage, another time they had frozen water line damage, calls from angry neighbours about tenants, evicting people, and even on one occasion John got a letter from the power company stating the power had been disconnected a month prior, right in the middle of winter because the current tenant hadn't paid the power bills for nearly a year. John felt a relief of stress come off him the day that his house finally sold. And there on he continued to doubt that house purchase, afterall even after a number of years that dreaded house sold for a loss of over $60,000 - 25% of the original price.

But after over a decade of regret from buying that house one day as John was recalling a story with a friend he had an epiphany. The story he was sharing involved John's grandpa living in the town where John had had that dreaded house and the last couple years of grandpa's life. During that time John and his wife made an effort to visit grandpa once a week since they lived only two blocks away. The rest of John's extended family visited much less and even those that visited grandpa once a year complained how grandpa couldn't carry a good conversation because of his Alzheimer's. Meanwhile John's family didn't seem to have such problems communicating with him. Then one day grandpa had a fall, and upon visiting grandpa who was always stoic and never one to give a compliment opened up to John how grateful he was for John, John's wife, their children, and their direction in life. John left that visit a bit dizzy at such a blessing that was given to him, not knowing that that would be his last visit. After grandpa's death many people in the family talked about when grandpa's mind was sharper as the last few years they admitted to having strained interactions with him. Upon sharing this story over a decade after his grandpa's death it finally had hit John that he might have been the only person to receive the blessing of a good relationship with grandpa in his last years. And it most likely would have never happened without the purchase of that dreaded house.

For many years John was looking for deliverance from that house and even after it was sold the negative feelings he carried were still with him like he had never been completely freed from that home. But finally John was delivered in his recognition of the love of God blessing him through what seemed like adversity. Today we have the benefit of seeing Christ in the Psalms and we don't doubt the prophecies about Him. We can read in the Old Testament about the miracles God preformed in delivering the Jews but then complaints to overcome because of circumstances. But as we may be in the midst of trials and circumstances today may those things not turn our focus to salvation from whatever those things are but onto the blessing of a living relationship with the Lord.

[MaxPC]

My take on this is that the people and possessions of verse 29 are literal, but the people and possessions of verse 30 are of a spiritual in nature. However, this is only for those who do sacrifice these material things 'for My sake and the gospel's'. It is not living a simple life style by giving up certain material things and not participating in the spread of the gospel. Is that not correct ?

Sudsy, that's interesting that there are those who would use this verse to promote a prosperity gospel. My personal take is that we are to make sacrifices for the sake of Jesus and the spread of the Gospel; but that while making the sacrifices, we should avoid whining and whinging about those sacrifices as Our Lord teaches in Matthew 6:16-18

Matthew 6
16 “And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

When H. Lamar Smith said:

We do not want “persecution” after our list of blessings; we have forgotten that Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are persecuted for my sake” and “Rejoice when you are persecuted” (Matthew 5:11-12). And, “If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name” (1 Peter 4:16 ESV).
We reject that as crazy; it makes no sense to us. So, when a little difficulty comes, we complain and whine. Never forget that of all the good blessings you can name that come with following Christ, we must add “persecutions”.

I was reminded of these verses:

2 Corinthians 4
17 For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

...For many years John was looking for deliverance from that house and even after it was sold the negative feelings he carried were still with him like he had never been completely freed from that home. But finally John was delivered in his recognition of the love of God blessing him through what seemed like adversity. Today we have the benefit of seeing Christ in the Psalms and we don't doubt the prophecies about Him. We can read in the Old Testament about the miracles God preformed in delivering the Jews but then complaints to overcome because of circumstances. But as we may be in the midst of trials and circumstances today may those things not turn our focus to salvation from whatever those things are but onto the blessing of a living relationship with the Lord.

This is an excellent parable, Wade. I am going to file it away as another example of the blessings that are sometimes hidden in adversity. In my experiences, that which temporarily appears to be an obstacle is usually God working His Plan for us:

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Romans 8: 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

[Sudsy]

My take on this is that the people and possessions of verse 29 are literal, but the people and possessions of verse 30 are of a spiritual in nature. However, this is only for those who do sacrifice these material things 'for My sake and the gospel's'. It is not living a simple life style by giving up certain material things and not participating in the spread of the gospel. Is that not correct ?

Sudsy, that's interesting that there are those who would use this verse to promote a prosperity gospel. My personal take is that we are to make sacrifices for the sake of Jesus and the spread of the Gospel; but that while making the sacrifices, we should avoid whining and whinging about those sacrifices as Our Lord teaches in Matthew 6:16-18

Matthew 6
16 “And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

When H. Lamar Smith said:

We do not want “persecution” after our list of blessings; we have forgotten that Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are persecuted for my sake” and “Rejoice when you are persecuted” (Matthew 5:11-12). And, “If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name” (1 Peter 4:16 ESV).
We reject that as crazy; it makes no sense to us. So, when a little difficulty comes, we complain and whine. Never forget that of all the good blessings you can name that come with following Christ, we must add “persecutions”.

I was reminded of these verses:

2 Corinthians 4
17 For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

...For many years John was looking for deliverance from that house and even after it was sold the negative feelings he carried were still with him like he had never been completely freed from that home. But finally John was delivered in his recognition of the love of God blessing him through what seemed like adversity. Today we have the benefit of seeing Christ in the Psalms and we don't doubt the prophecies about Him. We can read in the Old Testament about the miracles God preformed in delivering the Jews but then complaints to overcome because of circumstances. But as we may be in the midst of trials and circumstances today may those things not turn our focus to salvation from whatever those things are but onto the blessing of a living relationship with the Lord.

This is an excellent parable, Wade. I am going to file it away as another example of the blessings that are sometimes hidden in adversity. In my experiences, that which temporarily appears to be an obstacle is usually God working His Plan for us:

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Romans 8: 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Amen ! And to add a thought to this last verse quoted Romans 8:28, we see verse 29 that the “good” that God is working all things for in our lives is for us to be more like Christ. So, any time something happens in our lives, whatever circumstances we find ourselves in, we can be confident that God will be at work and use that life circumstance to change us to be like His Son. Believing this can give us a whole different mindset over things like climate change, politics, wars, sicknesses, finances, etc. We need not be troubled by these things and experience the God of peace ruling in our hearts - Col 3:15 -

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

I enjoyed and was encouraged reading this -

https://www.enlightiumacademy.com/blog/ ... s-for-good

[MaxPC]

It heartens me to see all these verses that speak to the same human condition. It shows the unified integrity of the Bible without a doubt.

Thank you for that link, Sudsy.