Powerless Christianity

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Sudsy
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Powerless Christianity

Post by Sudsy »

A thread to talk about why Christianity (and lets just talk about it here in North America) manifests very little supernatural power in the lives of Christians. In my experience this is true across all of the most liberal to and including the most conservative Christian groups of believers.

When I think of the power of the Spirit in operation in the early church it was seen in boldness to witness, healings and other supernatural gifts of the Spirit. A power far beyond what humans can create within themselves. So, I thought along the line of these questions -

- Has God decided that a demonstration of His power is no longer required in furthering His Kingdom here in NA?

- Could it be that we have so much clutter in our lives that there is little or no room for the Spirit to operate ?

- Has satan taken over the majority of our thought life with things of this world ?

- Have we been led to believe (often from the pulpit) to think that we should not expect the supernatural today happening in and through us ?

I ran across this in my searches. Any thoughts on this ? https://bible.org/illustration/how-sata ... ans-christ
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Just because something isn't a showy display of power doesn't make it "powerless".. Surely many thought the Son of God was powerless as he hung upon a cross, but we know that isn't so.
God defines power; we shouldn't try to define His powers based on the standards around us.
Anywhere where the Holy Spirit is doing His work, there's power. Whether you can "see" it or not.
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Josh
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Josh »

This just hasn't been true in my own life. Even when I didn't believe in God, I prayed to him and he answered when someone I cared about was very ill in the hospital. (Unfortunately that answered prayer didn't inspire me to follow him.)

God has taken care of me in supernatural ways. Once I had a grievously large medical bill, was not yet part of a need sharing ministry, and the providers wouldn't budge on not paying me.

Somehow an old employer never took me off their benefit plan and the laws in their particular state don't allow taking people off after the fact even when a major mistake like that is made. $40,000 went down to $1,000.

A friend had a stroke. We thought he might never talk or walk again. But he did, and he got born again, baptised, and joined the church too.

I myself changed supernaturally. I don't think I could have really stopped my old life on my own. And so many times I have been tempted. God always takes care of me and keeps me safe, sometimes at the last minute.

I guess I believe in a supernatural God and I keep seeing him at work over and over.
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Valerie
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Valerie »

I think about this a lot too Sudsy- maybe because I don't know Greek or Hebrew sometimes I wonder when the word "Power" is used in Scripture, what all kinds of power it is really referring to. Interestingly enough, I was reading 1 Corinthians 1, chapters 1 & 2 right before coming on MN. I was thinking about the Gospel that Paul said they preached- certainly it caused me to wonder the difference THEN and NOW. Paul preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified. This was the Gospel he took to the Gentiles, according to his own words. Was that the greatest message the Apostles were taking to start the Churches? Also I thought about what Apostle Paul said here:

1 Corinthians 2:4
“And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:”

I don't think that Apostle Paul meant that as to imply showiness, but there apparently was some type of power the Holy Spirit was being effective in, while preaching the Gospel that we seem to lack today and tend to rely on effective words and behavior as more of the Gospel? I don't know- was really contemplating this.

That link you provided by the way was originally sent to me by an Amish friend (at the time Amish, now Mennonite)- about 10 years ago, thanks for posting it because we can fall in that trap.
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Valerie
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Valerie »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Just because something isn't a showy display of power doesn't make it "powerless".. Surely many thought the Son of God was powerless as he hung upon a cross, but we know that isn't so.
God defines power; we shouldn't try to define His powers based on the standards around us.
Anywhere where the Holy Spirit is doing His work, there's power. Whether you can "see" it or not.
I would agree with this to a certain extent. Yet in the Old, and the New Testament, as well as the Church through this Church age, there has been a lot of 'supernatural' manifestations by the Lord God Almighty that He receives the glory for- from Creation to His miracles prior to and including to the children of Israel, then of course throughout the time of Jesus' ministry in so many miracles that they couldn't even write them all down, and including the Apostles who carried on this ministry and began taking the Gospel to the Gentile nations with miracles, signs and wonders to heal, and to reveal a miraculous God. God does not deny Himself, His power, His glory-
I just tend to wonder what all plays a part on how limited this is today- is it lack of faith? Having a form of Godliness but denying the power? I think many Christians would love to know why His Spirit is holding back in this area- truly I would love to hear from a true prophet of God where all the Church needs correction today- why the lack. It's not that I seek a sign, but more the recognition that God always has displayed 'obvious' miraculous power to glorify Himself.
Of course answering prayers like Josh (and we have had many similar testimonies) you know there is God at work- it's just different than Christ was operating in, and different than the Apostles (and from what I've read, certain Christians throughout this Church age has had miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit- )
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by JimFoxvog »

In the charismatic movement of the '70s and early '80s we believed we were seeing a fair amount of supernatural power. I moved away from that, but my impression was the movement got sucked into the prosperity gospel and right wing politics, and lost its early power.
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Josh
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Josh »

JimFoxvog wrote:In the charismatic movement of the '70s and early '80s we believed we were seeing a fair amount of supernatural power. I moved away from that, but my impression was the movement got sucked into the prosperity gospel and right wing politics, and lost its early power.
Perhaps God wishes to teach us how to handle power, and wants us to know the greatest power in the world is loving God and loving our neighbour.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:Perhaps God wishes to teach us how to handle power, and wants us to know the greatest power in the world is loving God and loving our neighbour.
I think so.

To me, one of the problems is that we Christians - me too, I'm afraid - spend so much time and energy debating opinions and trying to control other people that we don't have much left for loving God and neighbor. Our love is not the first thing people notice about us.
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Hats Off
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Hats Off »

Sudsy wrote:
- Has God decided that a demonstration of His power is no longer required in furthering His Kingdom here in NA?

- Could it be that we have so much clutter in our lives that there is little or no room for the Spirit to operate ?

- Has satan taken over the majority of our thought life with things of this world ?

- Have we been led to believe (often from the pulpit) to think that we should not expect the supernatural today happening in and through us ?
Another question:
- Are we so sleepy (or whatever) that we fail to see or recognise the Holy Spirit at work?
- Do we see so many false demonstrations of power or demonstrations from the wrong spirit that we become sceptical?
- If I had faith enough could my friend be healed of her mental distress without learning to deal with life from secular sources? Could she be healed even today the way Jesus healed so many people in His time on earth. Is it just our faith in the Holy Spirit that is lacking?
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Sudsy
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Re: Powerless Christianity

Post by Sudsy »

As has been posted by others, the early church had a form of Christianity that was 'powerful' in the sense that the supernatural was seen in what they did by unbelievers. One man in the NT even offered money to get this ability to operate in the supernatural. Valerie posted the verse where Paul spoke of how he ministered - 1 Corinthians 2:4 - “And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:” I doubt that this 'demonstration' was something that couldn't be seen and they were just to believe it was all happening in the unseen world.

Most Christian groups I have been around have very little to no gifts of the Spirit, spoken of in the NT, operating in their groups. In this area, I have not heard much about earnestly seeking these gifts. Why ? They either believe these gifts were for the early church only or they are just too afraid of the supernatural to operate in this way (some weird , non-scriptual activites amongst charismatics have scared them off) or they believe the Christian life is more about our determination to follow Jesus outside of experiencing the supernatural power of the Spirit or ???

So how can we be real Christ followers and attempt to be as obedient as possible to NT teachings without, at the same time, operating in the obvious supernatural ? Jesus said we would do greater works than He did. O ya, well this I can interpret to mean greater works as in quantity or He was just talking to His immediate audience. :roll:

My guess, at this point, is that most of Christianity knows very little about operating in the power of the Spirit to experience the on-going supernatural power spoken of in the NT. Occasionally, I hear of those that do and notice that they expect to experience the supernatural and are very dependent on God and being attached to the vine. The fruit of the Spirit is at a supernatural level and they experience a life of spiritual abundance. Rivers of living water flow out from them to whomever they come in contact with. They love to talk about Jesus and their relationship with Him is very intimate. My grandmother was one of these.

Seems to me this is the life God intends for us. An abundant life regardless of our circumstances in this world.

Thanks everyone for the input so far. I see others have this concern also and more related questions.
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