Knowledge puffeth up

General Christian Theology
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue.
That's where the harvest is.
May 23, 2007: The Day When the World Turned Majoritary [Majority] Urban
http://news.softpedia.com/news/May-23-2 ... 5679.shtml
it just happens to be a memorable date in my family. so, i happened to notice the report.

not sure there's anything scriptural about rural/urban mission fields.
cities were hit-hard in scriptures at various times. nothing saying we should not have cities, but nothing saying city-dwellers are God's favored ones. again, it's not black+white.

from what i have noticed (fwiw) :roll: ..
there was a big trend to divide everyone and everything into us+them, to politicize everything, small+big, established+not established, in the prior 8 years or so. division is/was NOT new, just "put on steroids," pushed to ever-newer poltical heights. esp formalized+funded thru government/human law.

i'd really like to see (we the people) reject this mode of thinking. it's unhealthy and destructive.
career politicians will not lead this, they've made that much clear.
if there is an improvement, it will have to be in hearts+minds of everyday people.

honestly, Mr Jim wrote about this, now some years ago.
he stated it's the politicians' game, divide+conquer. at that time, he stated, if we ordinary people do not learn to reject these political contrivances, we will be stuck with living with them.

i believe Jesus would agree. 8-)
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23820
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Josh »

Not sure what politics have to do with this.

I'm just saying that most of the people out there who need Jesus are in the cities, and it's hard to reach people you live a long ways away from. Kingdom Christians would do well to choose to treat the cities as a mission field.
0 x
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8522
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Robert »

Sudsy wrote: Love trumps knowledge.
First, really glad you are back with us Sudsy.

Now let me relate a story. I would often attend Pastors Week at AMBS, the seminary I attended years ago. They has a very well known OT scholar in to teach about the book of Jeremiah. The first two days were intense, but great. Lots to think about. I lived it. I twas lunch. Time to eat and let my brain settle. We all ate at the cafeteria. Meals were included. I was a Mennonite function. Meals have to be included. I walked into the hall and most were sitting together. I traveled a long way to attend and had no close connections. I knew some of the people, but just wanted to sit alone. I found an empty table and sat down. Within a few minutes, Willard Swartley, one of the most prominent NT professors at AMBS, who was one of my instructors when I attended came and sat next to me. We talked lightly and he asked about how I was doing. Within a few more minutes, the speaker, who was a very well known OT scholar came over and sat on the other side of me. He greeted us and started to eat. No one else was sitting at this table. I looked up and saw another professor I had at another table. I looked at her, looked to the left and right and looked back at her. Of all people to be sandwiched in the middle of these two. She laughed. She knew too. I looked at Willard and said, "You know, it is kind of intimidating sitting here, between you two." The OT lecturer, just grinned and went back to eating. He seemed to agree. Willard, was having none of it. "You know a lot of things we do not." I think he was remembering the time I fixed his dish washer, or the time I was replacing my front wheel bearing of my car on the seminary parking lot. He continued to engage me exploring what I was doing and how things were going. The OT scholar, while polite, seemed to have little interest. I ate quickly and left the two to more important conversations. I went outside for a walk, then returned to the lectures.

I learned a lot that day. Most of it from Willard Swartley while eating a meal.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
User avatar
Dan Z
Posts: 2648
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Dan Z »

Great story Robert. I think people hold knowledge in different ways. The story of Willard and the OT scholar makes a nice point.

We've all known snobs who seem to be full of themselves because of what they know - and I'm not just talking about head knowledge here - artists, craftspeople, mechanics, farmers, athletes, businessmen, computer geeks, etc. can all be prone to snobbery if they become puffed up about their superiority within their specialty. I don't think the scripture passage cited in the OP was just talking about intellectual knowledge.

But then there are others who hold to their expertise with humility - like Willard, a brilliant man who recognized the differing abilities in others, and considered his own ability in context.

Knowledge is a wonderful thing when it empowers a person to do good in the service of others. Knowledge is an awful thing when it empowers a person to do good in the service of self.
0 x
Ernie
Posts: 5445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue. That's where the harvest is.
Unless you are looking to reach unreached people groups, some of which are rural and very large.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Martin
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:17 pm
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Martin »

temporal1 wrote:
Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue.
That's where the harvest is.
May 23, 2007: The Day When the World Turned Majoritary [Majority] Urban
http://news.softpedia.com/news/May-23-2 ... 5679.shtml
it just happens to be a memorable date in my family. so, i happened to notice the report.

not sure there's anything scriptural about rural/urban mission fields.
cities were hit-hard in scriptures at various times. nothing saying we should not have cities, but nothing saying city-dwellers are God's favored ones. again, it's not black+white.

from what i have noticed (fwiw) :roll: ..
there was a big trend to divide everyone and everything into us+them, to politicize everything, small+big, established+not established, in the prior 8 years or so. division is/was NOT new, just "put on steroids," pushed to ever-newer poltical heights. esp formalized+funded thru government/human law.

i'd really like to see (we the people) reject this mode of thinking. it's unhealthy and destructive.
career politicians will not lead this, they've made that much clear.
if there is an improvement, it will have to be in hearts+minds of everyday people.

honestly, Mr Jim wrote about this, now some years ago.
he stated it's the politicians' game, divide+conquer. at that time, he stated, if we ordinary people do not learn to reject these political contrivances, we will be stuck with living with them.

i believe Jesus would agree. 8-)
Are you a Mennonite, Temp?
0 x
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by temporal1 »

Martin wrote:
temporal1 wrote:
Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue.
That's where the harvest is.
May 23, 2007: The Day When the World Turned Majoritary [Majority] Urban
http://news.softpedia.com/news/May-23-2 ... 5679.shtml
it just happens to be a memorable date in my family. so, i happened to notice the report.

not sure there's anything scriptural about rural/urban mission fields.
cities were hit-hard in scriptures at various times. nothing saying we should not have cities, but nothing saying city-dwellers are God's favored ones. again, it's not black+white.

from what i have noticed (fwiw) :roll: ..
there was a big trend to divide everyone and everything into us+them, to politicize everything, small+big, established+not established, in the prior 8 years or so. division is/was NOT new, just "put on steroids," pushed to ever-newer poltical heights. esp formalized+funded thru government/human law.

i'd really like to see (we the people) reject this mode of thinking. it's unhealthy and destructive.
career politicians will not lead this, they've made that much clear.
if there is an improvement, it will have to be in hearts+minds of everyday people.

honestly, Mr Jim wrote about this, now some years ago.
he stated it's the politicians' game, divide+conquer. at that time, he stated, if we ordinary people do not learn to reject these political contrivances, we will be stuck with living with them.

i believe Jesus would agree. 8-)
Are you a Mennonite, Temp?
no.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by temporal1 »

Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue. That's where the harvest is.
Unless you are looking to reach unreached people groups, some of which are rural and very large.
the current mission field i would like for Mennonites to reach would be pastors and other Christian leaders.

there are some basic beliefs i believe conservative Mennonites/Anabaptists get right that others could benefit from. often, "others" are very close to "being there." just one more step ..

the glaring examples (to me) are the refusal to lead church/fellowship members to politics and/or refusal to allow the media circus to exploit church and family matters.

this one message could make substantial difference.
and, i believe it's reasonable to think a difference could be made.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14439
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Bootstrap »

One of the things that puffeth up is My Exalted Opinion, whether or not it is backed up by any particular knowledge. The opposite of being puffed up is to love people, serve people, give to people, without needing to control them. I'm often way too addicted to My Exalted Opinion, and I am trying to learn to get out of that mode. It's not easy.

Robert's experience with Willard Swartley was an excellent example of a man who used his knowledge in the right way. Frederick Danker, another scholar, was mentioned in another thread - he is one of several scholars who shared their knowledge with me in this way. He would answer my questions and suggest ways I could improve my learning, and when he came out with his massive Lexicon, he sent me a free copy with his signature and a short greeting. When I met him face to face at a scholarly biblical languages conference, he introduced me to the people all around him like I was an old friend or something, and he was surrounded by very well known scholars. When he died, I kept bumping into other people who had similar stories to tell about him.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14439
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:I looked at Willard and said, "You know, it is kind of intimidating sitting here, between you two." The OT lecturer, just grinned and went back to eating. He seemed to agree. Willard, was having none of it. "You know a lot of things we do not." I think he was remembering the time I fixed his dish washer, or the time I was replacing my front wheel bearing of my car on the seminary parking lot.
Absolutely.

If your knowledge causes you to "esteem yourself" above others, you've got an attitude problem. And if you think the things you know are the only important things, you're simply not paying attention to what everyone else knows.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Post Reply