Knowledge puffeth up

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Josh
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue. That's where the harvest is.
Unless you are looking to reach unreached people groups, some of which are rural and very large.
I guess I was thinking in the North American contest, which is where the "it's better to live in the country" mindset seems the most entrenched.
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Josh
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

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temporal1 wrote:
Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue. That's where the harvest is.
Unless you are looking to reach unreached people groups, some of which are rural and very large.
the current mission field i would like for Mennonites to reach would be pastors and other Christian leaders.

there are some basic beliefs i believe conservative Mennonites/Anabaptists get right that others could benefit from. often, "others" are very close to "being there." just one more step ..

the glaring examples (to me) are the refusal to lead church/fellowship members to politics and/or refusal to allow the media circus to exploit church and family matters.

this one message could make substantial difference.
and, i believe it's reasonable to think a difference could be made.
Not sure what you mean by this. A lot of conservative Mennonites read Fox News and get mixed up in political debates, and get caught up in culture-war controversies they see in the media.
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Martin
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Martin »

Josh wrote: Not sure what you mean by this. A lot of conservative Mennonites read Fox News and get mixed up in political debates, and get caught up in culture-war controversies they see in the media.
Do you mean "watch" Fox News?
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

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Josh wrote:
temporal1 wrote:the current mission field i would like for Mennonites to reach would be pastors and other Christian leaders.

there are some basic beliefs i believe conservative Mennonites/Anabaptists get right that others could benefit from. often, "others" are very close to "being there." just one more step ..

the glaring examples (to me) are the refusal to lead church/fellowship members to politics and/or refusal to allow the media circus to exploit church and family matters.

this one message could make substantial difference.
and, i believe it's reasonable to think a difference could be made.
Not sure what you mean by this. A lot of conservative Mennonites read Fox News and get mixed up in political debates, and get caught up in culture-war controversies they see in the media.
Right. Not all conservative Mennonites "get it right" in these areas, and some non-Mennonites do "get it right."

While there's a time and place for explaining and promoting political nonparticipation, the problem with considering other Christians a mission field is (1) it makes us rather than Christ their judge, Romans 14:4, and (2) it is not Christocentric, 1 Cor. 1:23.
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temporal1
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote:Right. Not all conservative Mennonites "get it right" in these areas, and some non-Mennonites do "get it right."

While there's a time and place for explaining and promoting political nonparticipation, the problem with considering other Christians a mission field is (1) it makes us rather than Christ their judge, Romans 14:4, and (2) it is not Christocentric, 1 Cor. 1:23.
ok, yes.
to dissect my dream a little more ..
realize, the major experience i draw from is this forum. not 100%, but, significant.

there is quite a lot of criticism of other believers here (judging) .. this causes me to wonder, how does it make sense to criticize others if they have had no exposure to "getting it right?" this question arises in various ways, it's not original with me. at times, possibly you have asked it?

specifically, i wonder about messages of divorce and no remarriage, and, refusing politics+media?
some others seem to teeter on the edge of alignment with conservative Anabaptist beliefs, then, they veer off, and fall into the primordial soup. i believe, in ignorance, and, so, is there a shared responsibility? .. particularly if they are to be criticized for it?

(i believe) some church leaders reach out to other church leaders in varying ways, sometimes for community projects, sometimes for mutual sharing and understanding.

a recent example of politicizing was the Dylann Roof case.
the church members' first response was "right there," in forgiveness, then they allowed the situation to be politicized and exploited by media. so close. how to take the next steps? i sense people are looking for the right answers. it's a matter of ignorance .. including ignorance of leadership.

to clarify, this is a personal dream. i do have dreams. :)
and, i am able to differentiate between fantasy+reality. i think. :-|
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Josh
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by Josh »

Martin wrote:
Josh wrote: Not sure what you mean by this. A lot of conservative Mennonites read Fox News and get mixed up in political debates, and get caught up in culture-war controversies they see in the media.
Do you mean "watch" Fox News?
No, they wouldn't watch the TV broadcast. It they would watch short clips shared on Facebook.

A number of people I have encountered set Fox News as their home page.
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Josh
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

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When on earth did the membership or leadership at Emanuel AME allow the fact an entire Bible study of theirs got shot to death be "politicised"? I don't think they were any more political than other historically black Protestant churches.

The AME is not even nonresistant or non-political and has never claimed to be.
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Josh
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

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temporal1, what the average Conservative Mennonite does upon meeting another Christian is encourage them to keep following Jesus with their whole heart, and to read the Bible and be faithful to obey it. It is certainly not the norm to immediately start telling someone who is a Christian about outward things they need to change.

I do know a man who did this. He would confront waitresses if they are Christian and then complain they weren't wearing a ceiling or a long enough dress. During these times I wanted to hide under the table.

Once I brought a man to mens' Bible study who had been thru a lot - ex wife molested their sin, he got cancer, she divorced him (and then ended up being prosecuted for the molestation). He was homeless for a while. The Lord found him and the cancer was cured, eventually his life got stable again.

The response of the other man was to tell him he lives in adultery since he's remarried and his testimony is thus not worth hearing and told him he's going to hell. Needless to say he never came to another one of those men's Bible studies, and neither did the other guest I invited that day who was not even Christian.

I hope very few other conservative Mennonites act like that. If they did, I would have never bothered with becoming conservative, or even a Christian at all.
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

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temporal1 wrote:the current mission field i would like for Mennonites to reach would be pastors and other Christian leaders.
temporal1 wrote:ok, yes.
to dissect my dream a little more ..
realize, the major experience i draw from is this forum. not 100%, but, significant.

there is quite a lot of criticism of other believers here (judging) .. this causes me to wonder, how does it make sense to criticize others if they have had no exposure to "getting it right?" this question arises in various ways, it's not original with me. at times, possibly you have asked it?

specifically, i wonder about messages of divorce and no remarriage, and, refusing politics+media?
some others seem to teeter on the edge of alignment with conservative Anabaptist beliefs, then, they veer off, and fall into the primordial soup. i believe, in ignorance, and, so, is there a shared responsibility? .. particularly if they are to be criticized for it?

(i believe) some church leaders reach out to other church leaders in varying ways, sometimes for community projects, sometimes for mutual sharing and understanding.

a recent example of politicizing was the Dylann Roof case.
the church members' first response was "right there," in forgiveness, then they allowed the situation to be politicized and exploited by media. so close. how to take the next steps? i sense people are looking for the right answers. it's a matter of ignorance .. including ignorance of leadership.

to clarify, this is a personal dream. i do have dreams. :)
and, i am able to differentiate between fantasy+reality. i think. :-|
Certainly we could do with more patient explanation and fewer personal attacks around here. But MD/MN is a Mennonite-oriented place with historically a sizable conservative presence -- "our turf" you might say, with others also welcome. In some cases at least (but not always :oops: ), the criticism arises when someone without exposure to our beliefs seems more interested in pushing their own beliefs than in listening, learning, and discussing. Or when, having listened and learned, continues to discuss and discuss and argue and dispute and rehash the same subject. Those two subjects in particular, it seems.

Reaching a mission field with teaching on those subjects, though, implies not just defending them here but going to "their turf" with the message. I doubt that someone with that agenda who posts on catholicforum or puritanboard, for example, would receive any more tolerance than we have generally extended, and quite possibly less.

Cooperation between church leaders (which we could use more of) naturally tends to focus on areas of agreement and commonality. In the process of working together, areas of disagreement may come up; the opportunity for education and explanation, and at times persuasion, should not be ignored, but it must not become the focus of the relationship.

And in the meantime we neglect the unreached, the true mission field.
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I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
temporal1
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Re: Knowledge puffeth up

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote:Certainly we could do with more patient explanation and fewer personal attacks around here. But MD/MN is a Mennonite-oriented place with historically a sizable conservative presence -- "our turf" you might say, with others also welcome. In some cases at least (but not always :oops: ), the criticism arises when someone without exposure to our beliefs seems more interested in pushing their own beliefs than in listening, learning, and discussing. Or when, having listened and learned, continues to discuss and discuss and argue and dispute and rehash the same subject. Those two subjects in particular, it seems.

Reaching a mission field with teaching on those subjects, though, implies not just defending them here but going to "their turf" with the message. I doubt that someone with that agenda who posts on catholicforum or puritanboard, for example, would receive any more tolerance than we have generally extended, and quite possibly less.

Cooperation between church leaders (which we could use more of) naturally tends to focus on areas of agreement and commonality. In the process of working together, areas of disagreement may come up; the opportunity for education and explanation, and at times persuasion, should not be ignored, but it must not become the focus of the relationship.

And in the meantime we neglect the unreached, the true mission field.
thank you for trying to respond .. i appreciate it. wasn't really expecting it.
there are lots of points here, possibly some conflation/confusion of (my) thoughts. i'll be thinking it over. i'm tired and fasting for lab work in the morning, so will return later. at least the weather looks fine for driving.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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