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temporal1 wrote:i have met, worked with, personally known, interacted with many highly education, multi-degreed folks in my lifetime. lawyers, scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. (a consequence of living near a large state university, i suppose.) in more recent years, due to personal and family needs and illnesses, i've interacted with medical and psychiatric doctors, many with multiple degrees. many very fine minds.

the one common thread i notice, the more education, combined with real life experience, the more likely these "experts" will rush to clarify - they are NOT experts! - i.e., the more they learn, the more humble they become, the more they realize they do not know, the more anxious they are to clarify,
they do NOT "know it all."

This is a really good observation.

I notice that Wade's signature is now "knowledge puffeth up". To me, that refers to the kind of knowledge that says I know more than you and I am better than you. To a Christian, that's not what knowledge is for.

But the New Testament also talks about knowledge in a positive way. What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge help us in our daily walk as Christians? What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge just puff us up?

And how does this relate to what scientists and philosophers call "epistemological humility", being humble about what we claim to know and realizing how much we do not know?

I hope you get some good answers here. In my years as a writer / editor, and as a teacher, I've often struggles with feeling like the odd man out in the circles I was part of. Naturally, you can't spend half of your adult years in a knowledge based environment without being affected by it. But I've always felt that some of my brothers and sister in the church have the impression that anyone with such interests is automatically puffed up.

So what do you do? If I went farming I'd be bankrupt in five years.

[bible]1 Corinthians 8, 1-3[/bible]

Interestingly:
[bible]1 Corinthians 1, 5[/bible]

I placed this here as my signature as a reminder.

I am susceptible to pride... It is a challenge to me to get the message across properly of using the knowledge of Christ and the inspired Word to its full extent in faithful obedience while doing it because of love to Him rather than just following through with the right knowledge. For His glory and the building up of others.

Wade wrote:[bible]1 Corinthians 8, 1-3[/bible]

Interestingly:
[bible]1 Corinthians 1, 5[/bible]

I placed this here as my signature as a reminder.

I am susceptible to pride... It is a challenge to me to get the message across properly of using the knowledge of Christ and the inspired Word to its full extent in faithful obedience while doing it because of love to Him rather than just following through with the right knowledge. For His glory and the building up of others.

Spot on, Wade.

Re

lesterb wrote:Naturally, you can't spend half of your adult years in a knowledge based environment without being affected by it.

Very true. Like any occupation it's a constant balancing act to stay focused on Christ and still be able to relate to non-Christian co-workers. That naturally makes sincere Christians the "odd men". I had the blessing of the homestead and the job; if I came home feeling a bit proud of something I did at work, mucking out the barn put me squarely back in the proper frame of mind.

My observation is that quite a few folks are puffed up about their knowledge of down-to-earth matters like mucking around in a barn, and indeed look down on city dwellers who have intellectual occupations but wouldn't be able to feed themselves from a farm.

Contempt from either group for the other is not becoming in a Christian.

Josh wrote:My observation is that quite a few folks are puffed up about their knowledge of down-to-earth matters like mucking around in a barn, and indeed look down on city dwellers who have intellectual occupations but wouldn't be able to feed themselves from a farm.

Contempt from either group for the other is not becoming in a Christian.

It's not Christian, but it has a long history.
Aesop's Fables / The Town Mouse and the City Mouse
http://www.mcs.k12.in.us/images/manches ... ymouse.pdf

during the Middle Ages, the Black Plague pandemic, urban areas were greatly over crowded and filthy, people in rural areas stood a better chance of avoiding it/surviving. after so many deaths, this allowed survivors to thrive economically, the Renaissance (the rebirth) followed.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Renaissance

the Black Plague is just one example of disaster worsened by concentrated populations unable to support themselves. earthquakes, droughts, disease, fires, as well as disease can cause havoc.

(i believe) what we're experiencing right now is a "cultural reset" where, for decades, U.S. government oversight of education and the sciences, and, somewhat separately, what has become the news "industry" (manufacture of all that is now labeled as "news")
were so trusted by the general population, now that fraud, corruption, exploitation of public trust, have been revealed, there is a generally healthy push-back happening: the pendulum swings.

if the disparity is not faced before, massive disparities can lead to all-out physical war.
if a reset can be managed without resorting to such drastic measures, great.

all need to be accountable. no human or human entity is deserving of carte blanche forever.
all are vulnerable to failure. through honest mistakes as well as sin.

having said all that .. back to the OP, some will never trust science, others will never respect common sense. most very likely accept and respect both, and appreciate both.

i'm not sure where accusations of black+white stands on this are coming from on this forum.
i'm not reading this into members' posts, but, evidently, some are. lester refers to some who reject all science (?) .. these folks, rejecting internet use, are probably not directly represented on this forum (?)

this topic might do well with a member poll?
i.e., what do members think? (not, what are they presumed to think?)

i doubt it's as divisive, black+white, us+them, as may be causing forum "unrest."
"Speculation is the enemy of peace."

temporal1 wrote: It's not Christian, but it has a long history.
Aesop's Fables / The Town Mouse and the City Mouse
http://www.mcs.k12.in.us/images/manches ... ymouse.pdf

during the Middle Ages, the Black Plague pandemic, urban areas were greatly over crowded and filthy, people in rural areas stood a better chance of avoiding it/surviving. after so many deaths, this allowed survivors to thrive economically, the Renaissance (the rebirth) followed.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Renaissance

the Black Plague is just one example of disaster worsened by concentrated populations unable to support themselves. earthquakes, droughts, disease, fires, as well as disease can cause havoc.

(i believe) what we're experiencing right now is a "cultural reset" where, for decades, U.S. government oversight of education and the sciences, and, somewhat separately, what has become the news "industry" (manufacture of all that is now labeled as "news")
were so trusted by the general population, now that fraud, corruption, exploitation of public trust, have been revealed, there is a generally healthy push-back happening: the pendulum swings.

if the disparity is not faced before, massive disparities can lead to all-out physical war.
if a reset can be managed without resorting to such drastic measures, great.

all need to be accountable. no human or human entity is deserving of carte blanche forever.
all are vulnerable to failure. through honest mistakes as well as sin.

having said all that .. back to the OP, some will never trust science, others will never respect common sense. most very likely accept and respect both, and appreciate both.

i'm not sure where accusations of black+white stands on this are coming from on this forum.
i'm not reading this into members' posts, but, evidently, some are. lester refers to some who reject all science (?) .. these folks, rejecting internet use, are probably not directly represented on this forum (?)

this topic might do well with a member poll?
i.e., what do members think? (not, what are they presumed to think?)

i doubt it's as divisive, black+white, us+them, as may be causing forum "unrest."
"Speculation is the enemy of peace."

Indeed, well said T1.
Lashing out at others, because of assumptions and presumptions, especially those based on bigotry, cause more discord within brotherhoods and communities than the actual activities. Certainly asking is better than assuming. Remember that old saying about "assume"

It's a mark of mature Christian discipleship to be able to listen to others' experiences with a generous and compassionate heart. We never know when God is speaking and teaching us through others.

Most people are living in cities now and the rural to urban migrations continue. That's where the harvest is.

But the New Testament also talks about knowledge in a positive way. What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge help us in our daily walk as Christians? What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge just puff us up?

1 Cor 13:2 - If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love trumps knowledge.

What kind of love trumps knowledge - 1 Cor 13:4- 8a - Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

If knowledge lacks these characteristics when shared, then it is ego centered knowledge.

Sudsy wrote:

But the New Testament also talks about knowledge in a positive way. What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge help us in our daily walk as Christians? What kinds of knowledge and approaches to knowledge just puff us up?

1 Cor 13:2 - If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love trumps knowledge.

What kind of love trumps knowledge - 1 Cor 13:4- 8a - Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

If knowledge lacks these characteristics when shared, then it is ego centered knowledge.