From Cult to Established Church

General Christian Theology
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Bootstrap
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by Bootstrap »

ohio jones wrote:
Josh wrote:Worldwide Church of God
This is probably the best example of a group that made the leap from cult (using the common definition, not necessarily the one in the OP) to church. Now known as Grace Communion International, it has rejected most of the heretical beliefs of Armstrongism and aligned itself with the National Association of Evangelicals (whether or not it has fully made that transition I don't know, but most accounts say it is well along the path to orthodoxy). A dozen or so splinter groups claiming to be the true remnant of the WCG remain heretical to a greater or lesser degree, but the main body is quite different from what it was 30 years ago.
Seventh Day Adventists made the same kind of jump, I think.
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gcdonner
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by gcdonner »

Neto wrote:I don’t think that ‘cult’ is a negative term in the Latin languages. In Portuguese (Brazilian Portuguese, at least) the word ‘culto’ is used to refer to a religious service.

I think that I do see validity in Max's definition, in the sense that any group that is sufficiently out of the mainstream of majority "Christian" thought will be labeled as a cult, in the negative sense. So with that understanding, I would answer that a 'cult' (a distinctive Christian group) will become main stream when they loose the most variant parts of their belief or practice. But I'm answering this from the perspective of those who see that group in negative light, either as being "off", or extremists. Once when I was in Bible College I was getting perhaps a bit long-winded in describing who the Mennonites were, and the guy I was talking with came back with something like "Now what kind of cult is this you are talking about?" So the farther the mainstream of "Christianity" gets from true Biblical faith & conduct, the more we will look like a cult to them, and the more we should, if I might add. In that light, a cult will become an established church when they have lost their zeal, their connection to the Holy Spirit of God.
Or just become accepted by the established church over time.
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gcdonner
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by gcdonner »

Bootstrap wrote:
ohio jones wrote:
Josh wrote:Worldwide Church of God
This is probably the best example of a group that made the leap from cult (using the common definition, not necessarily the one in the OP) to church. Now known as Grace Communion International, it has rejected most of the heretical beliefs of Armstrongism and aligned itself with the National Association of Evangelicals (whether or not it has fully made that transition I don't know, but most accounts say it is well along the path to orthodoxy). A dozen or so splinter groups claiming to be the true remnant of the WCG remain heretical to a greater or lesser degree, but the main body is quite different from what it was 30 years ago.
Seventh Day Adventists made the same kind of jump, I think.
It depends on what part of the 7DA you are speaking about. Many of them, perhaps most, still view Ellen White as a prophetess of God and quote her right alongside the bible. Their eschatology and failed prophecies connected with it also make it a dubious destination for the saints, though I admire their dedication and good expositional preaching on the radio on many topics. They do preach a born again message and immersion, so they can't be all bad... :mrgreen:
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temporal1
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by temporal1 »

gcdonner wrote:It depends on what part of the 7DA you are speaking about.
Many of them, perhaps most, still view Ellen White as a prophetess of God and quote her right alongside the bible. :-|

Their eschatology and failed prophecies connected with it also make it a dubious destination for the saints, though I admire their dedication and good expositional preaching on the radio on many topics.

They do preach a born again message and immersion, so they can't be all bad... :mrgreen:
This reminds of our friends who were Christian Scientists.
We visited church with them for awhile, i knew i/we could never seek membership, based only on their refusal to use modern medicine. This was before i began to see Light in the Word, but, even then, i could not accept Mary Baker Eddy as the "second coming of Christ" (we were told this at that time, they may not be claiming that now) .. and, they definitely read MBE's book(s) right alongside the KJV, line-for-line. even then, i could not do this.

i studied with them for a time, but only the Bible, not her writings (that were assigned/suggested.)

i am grateful for the study skills i learned from them. i could not accept MBE as a spiritual leader.
my husband was not interested, children too young to be affected. we visited for a few months.

http://www.christianscience.com/
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent ... Baker_Eddy

later, when i learned about Martin Luther, and, later, on this forum, Menno Simons, i was impressed that both men did NOT want to bring attention to themselves, they did not want to found a new religion in their names, each wanted to direct others to seek after Jesus Christ.

(to me) this is scriptural, and, imperative to "weed out" cults. (i.e., cults, as a derogatory term.)

when i was first exposed to Jehovah Witnesses, the name of Jesus Christ was unwelcome.
in the years since, i gather they've softened their public language/public view on it, but, i wonder to what extent?
i am not trusting of them that way.
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gcdonner
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by gcdonner »

temporal1 wrote:
gcdonner wrote:It depends on what part of the 7DA you are speaking about.
Many of them, perhaps most, still view Ellen White as a prophetess of God and quote her right alongside the bible. :-|

Their eschatology and failed prophecies connected with it also make it a dubious destination for the saints, though I admire their dedication and good expositional preaching on the radio on many topics.

They do preach a born again message and immersion, so they can't be all bad... :mrgreen:
This reminds of our friends who were Christian Scientists.
We visited church with them for awhile, i knew i/we could never seek membership, based only on their refusal to use modern medicine. This was before i began to see Light in the Word, but, even then, i could not accept Mary Baker Eddy as the "second coming of Christ" (we were told this at that time, they may not be claiming that now) .. and, they definitely read MBE's book(s) right alongside the KJV, line-for-line. even then, i could not do this.

i studied with them for a time, but only the Bible, not her writings (that were assigned/suggested.)

i am grateful for the study skills i learned from them. i could not accept MBE as a spiritual leader.
my husband was not interested, children too young to be affected. we visited for a few months.

http://www.christianscience.com/
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent ... Baker_Eddy

later, when i learned about Martin Luther, and, later, on this forum, Menno Simons, i was impressed that both men did NOT want to bring attention to themselves, they did not want to found a new religion in their names, each wanted to direct others to seek after Jesus Christ.

(to me) this is scriptural, and, imperative to "weed out" cults. (i.e., cults, as a derogatory term.)

when i was first exposed to Jehovah Witnesses, the name of Jesus Christ was unwelcome.
in the years since, i gather they've softened their public language/public view on it, but, i wonder to what extent?
i am not trusting of them that way.
JWs will freely use the name of Jesus, but he is not considered to be Divine in their estimation. Although their perspectives are different, I tend to lump them in with the Mormons, who lean more on the book of Mormon than they do on the Bible. The BoM is their scripture, not the bible, since in their view the BoM is the new revelation of Jesus to the world. Since we have been here in Minnesota we have had more interaction with both of these groups than we ever did before in our lifetime.
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rightly dividing the word of truth
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temporal1
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Re: From Cult to Established Church

Post by temporal1 »

gcdonner wrote:JWs will freely use the name of Jesus, but he is not considered to be Divine in their estimation. Although their perspectives are different, I tend to lump them in with the Mormons, who lean more on the book of Mormon than they do on the Bible. The BoM is their scripture, not the bible, since in their view the BoM is the new revelation of Jesus to the world. Since we have been here in Minnesota we have had more interaction with both of these groups than we ever did before in our lifetime.
i believe they have learned to behave in acceptable ways in public regarding Jesus. that was not the case in the early '70's (my experience) - of course, right then, they were awaiting another End of the World
(i believe it was to be in '75?) ..

from what i understand, they discourage their members from associating with anyone who is not a member, including family. they never go out alone. there is a private world. possibly Mormons do this, too? .. evidently, Hutterites do some of this? the situation in my family with JW's caused a lot of pain. and continues to do so.

a converted heart does change relationships.
there are added questions when it becomes a rule for membership to remove oneself from family and friends.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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