Spirit Led Christians

General Christian Theology

What does it mean to be lead by the Spirit?

 
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Bootstrap
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

Post by Bootstrap »

Neto wrote:Re: The dispute in Calvinism referred to above:
(We’re off-topic with this, so I won’t write much about it.)
Yeah, it's hard for me to believe that Calvinism vs. Arminianism debates demonstrate that someone is led by the Spirit ...
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Sudsy
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

Post by Sudsy »

Bootstrap wrote:
Neto wrote:Re: The dispute in Calvinism referred to above:
(We’re off-topic with this, so I won’t write much about it.)
Yeah, it's hard for me to believe that Calvinism vs. Arminianism debates demonstrate that someone is led by the Spirit ...
I will drop talking about my example of how the Holy Spirit is said to be leading us into all truth - John 16:13. To me, this demonstrates that we can say we are Spirit led in our interpretations and yet be quite opposites in how God operates in the world in saving people. I view being led by the Spirit to not only giving us direction in the way that we should go but also about what we should believe about God.
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

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Sudsy wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Yeah, it's hard for me to believe that Calvinism vs. Arminianism debates demonstrate that someone is led by the Spirit ...
I will drop talking about my example of how the Holy Spirit is said to be leading us into all truth - John 16:13. To me, this demonstrates that we can say we are Spirit led in our interpretations and yet be quite opposites in how God operates in the world in saving people. I view being led by the Spirit to not only giving us direction in the way that we should go but also about what we should believe about God.
In John 16:13, I don't think that "all truth" means "the answer to every question Christians fight about". The favorite verses of a lot of Christians seem to be "They will know we are Christians by our doctrine" and "I came that you might all be right". But when you look at what the Bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and truth, it generally is not the kind of religious doctrine or religious practice that we focus on in our religious arguments.

Here's one way you can tell if someone is led by the Holy Spirit:
Galatians 5 wrote:I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Here's another passage that helps us know if we are led by the Holy Spirit:
1 John 3 wrote:This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his need—how can God’s love reside in him?

Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action. This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things.

Dear friends, if our conscience doesn’t condemn us, we have confidence before God and can receive whatever we ask from Him because we keep His commands and do what is pleasing in His sight. Now this is His command: that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commands remains in Him, and He in him. And the way we know that He remains in us is from the Spirit He has given us.
We do need some doctrine, enough to know Jesus and come to live in his love:
1 John 4 wrote:This is how we know that we remain in Him and He in us: He has given assurance to us from His Spirit. And we have seen and we testify that the Father has sent His Son as the world’s Savior. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God—God remains in him and he in God. And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, for we are as He is in this world. There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love. We love because He first loved us.
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

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I think it's also important to take the Philippians 2 quote in context. I believe you can "think the same way" without agreeing on every matter of opinion. And I think the real appeal here is to serve each other as Christ served us.

If anyone does this, I'm pretty sure that person is led by the Holy Spirit:
Philippians 2 wrote:If then there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by thinking the same way, having the same love, sharing the same feelings, focusing on one goal. Do nothing out of rivalry or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves. Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,

who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be used for His own advantage.
Instead He emptied Himself
by assuming the form of a slave,
taking on the likeness of men.
And when He had come as a man
in His external form,
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
of those who are in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

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Bootstrap wrote: In John 16:13, I don't think that "all truth" means "the answer to every question Christians fight about". The favorite verses of a lot of Christians seem to be "They will know we are Christians by our doctrine" and "I came that you might all be right". But when you look at what the Bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and truth, it generally is not the kind of religious doctrine or religious practice that we focus on in our religious arguments.
So, when you read - (bolding mine)
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.


you don't see the illumination of bible truth through the "Spirit of Truth", meaning that to be led by the Spirit is also included in the other areas you posted ? Is that correct ? Wasn't doctrinal truth part of what Jesus was praying about in the unity He desired for us ? I realize that it hasn't happened but was this God's ideal for us and we blew it ?
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Re: Spirit Led Christians

Post by Bootstrap »

Sudsy wrote:So, when you read - (bolding mine)
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.


you don't see the illumination of bible truth through the "Spirit of Truth", meaning that to be led by the Spirit is also included in the other areas you posted ? Is that correct ? Wasn't doctrinal truth part of what Jesus was praying about in the unity He desired for us ? I realize that it hasn't happened but was this God's ideal for us and we blew it ?


Some doctrinal truth, definitely. But if you simply read through the Acts of the Apostles or the letters of Paul, Peter, and John, the level of doctrine described there is a tiny fraction of the doctrine you bump into in some circles, and when the Spirit helped them understand the things freely given by God, and awful lot of that was teaching them how to live and live with each other, their identity in Christ, the extent to which they can trust God, what it means to walk by the Spirit, basic righteousness, etc.

When we debate Calvinism vs. Armenianism or the proper shape of a headcovering or whether to vote or wear plain clothes or not ... I suspect these are not the things that tell us if someone is led by the Spirit.
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