Swimming Upstream

General Christian Theology
MaxPC
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Swimming Upstream

Post by MaxPC »

RZehr used this wonderfully descriptive phrase in another thread more than a month ago. For me "swimming upstream" vividly characterizes our task in discipleship to strive upward toward Christ instead of "going with the flow" of secular/worldly behaviors, ideologies, and pressures.

Just want to express my appreciation of this apt phrase. :D
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
temporal1
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by temporal1 »

i can't speak for max.
to (once again) attempt to point out, my thots on this are focused on appreciation of RZehr's words ..
RZehr's imagery touched me, too. i've continued to think about it.
it resonated with others .. bringing interesting discussion.

i first noticed it here, Page 3, it's moved around a bit since -
(i underlined "swimming upstream.") it painted a picture. it inspires personal reflection.
:)
boot, you are not central to my interest on this forum.
the fact that RZehr was responding to you in this example is secondary to me.
if something touches you, so be it.

i admit, i considered deleting your part out of the quote .. decided it contributed, so left it in.
that's all i have in response: you are not central to my interest in RZehr's interesting words.
Last edited by temporal1 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:discussions and thoughts followed. :)
Indeed it did, and I suggest that anyone who is interested look at the original thread.

Here's something that puzzles me. You and Max seem to be pretty convinced that you have an awful lot in common with plain Mennonites and I have nothing in common with them, and this seems to be one of your recurrent talking points. Do you think the plain Mennonites on this forum would agree?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by temporal1 »

what happened?
my post above disappeared?! wow.
my post count is done for today. so. 'later, ya'll. :?
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by temporal1 »

temporal1 wrote:what happened?
my post above disappeared?! wow.
my post count is done for today. so. 'later, ya'll. :?
This thread has already received 50 views.
it's a good thread, should not be ruined with rancor. i want to try to explain.

1. i posted after Max's OP. i thought, and intended, a thoughtful, appreciative post.
2. boot responded, evidently, in anger (?) ..
3. i tried to explain (he was not understanding the purpose of my post) .. i posted this.
4. then, i noticed my entire post had vanished - no bunny trails / briar patch - gone! :shock:
5. then, my 2nd post somehow preceeded boot's post - out of order. :?

bottom line,
please ignore posts above, they are incomplete and out of order. :-|
i hope this potentially valuable thread will take an upturn from this point. :) :arrow:

my day began pleasantly. i'll try to return.
"this is the day the Lord hath made."
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by Bootstrap »

As far as I can tell, neither you nor Max intend to "swim upstream" and join a plain Menno church, and neither of you attend one. Or did I get something wrong?

Last I knew, Max is Catholic, you don't attend a church, I was MCUSA for many years and am now attending a Presbyterian church, feeling very much at odds with its theology. I think we each honor quite a few things about plain Mennonites, I suspect none of us is seriously working on joining them.

We've had threads on how a lot of us who have been Mennonites deal with being members of non-Mennonite churches, and many threads on non-plain Mennonite traditions. Perhaps you and Max could have threads explaining how you approach the same kinds of issues and struggles? I don't think people will attack you for not being a plain Mennonite. The only people who make an issue of it here are people who are not remotely plain Mennonite. Most people here are carefully avoiding creating factions and divisions between plain and non-plain Mennonites, and most of us believe that non-Mennonites are also welcome on MN.
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MaxPC
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by MaxPC »

An additional thought about RZehr's wonderful phrase: it takes both strength and focus to swim upstream. God gives us the strength and the focus if we just ask Him. :D

There is quite a bit of wisdom that comes from the trials of life and Anabaptists have a wonderful way of expressing that wisdom through sayings that can be handed on to children and others.

T1, it looks like an internet hiccup occurred but I do see your posts now. Sometimes I think the internet just daydreams. :hug:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:An additional thought about RZehr's wonderful phrase: it takes both strength and focus to swim upstream. God gives us the strength and the focus if we just ask Him. :D
So are you going to do it? Or are you going to stay in the Catholic church? Or are you using the phrase in a completely different sense than RZehr was using it in? If so, what do you mean by the phrase?

What exactly are you suggesting people do here?
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
MaxPC
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by MaxPC »

I searched for the Biblical perspective of "swimming upstream" and found this interesting study that also connects with the idea of Two Kingdoms.
Link
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Neto
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Re: Swimming Upstream

Post by Neto »

Please clue me in - in what thread (date & page, too, if it's a long one) did RZer's referenced comment appear?

(If I am guessing correctly as to how it was meant, I have also heard the symbolism used of pulling a sled back up a snowy slope. If it is an entire congregation, then you'll always have some who hang onto the sled, won't let go, but just drag along, fighting the upward motion at every turn. If it is an individual, you will have people grabbing your sled, to tell you that "It's more fun going down.")

(Oh, and Boot, I appreciate your presence here, as I do the others. I have respect for anyone who has the courage to move with the Holy Spirit against the flow of the culture or the world. Using the swimming analogy, not every stream's headwaters ends up in a 'Plain Mennonite' congregation.)
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