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Wade wrote:There is a man I know that I talk with about spiritual things at work. I think he is a Christian but he never seems to talk about Christ but more about spirituality and is quite learned... Our conversions have progressed to the point of the last one we had - I got to point a lot more clearly to Christ and he seemed more interested and motivated than ever to what was being shared. He shared about having difficulties with his sons that our around my age and what to do about helping steer them to a better way.
I haven't seen him for three months after that very encouraging conversation. And then I learned today that one of his sons died in an accident at home where he was close enough and had the opportunity to try and revive his son. He has been off work for a month now grieving...
We have developed a somewhat close relationship of sharing and encouraging one another.

Does anyone have any advice for the next times I get to speak with this man?

I would tell him how much I enjoy my conversations with him ask him how he's doing. Then listen and ask gentle questions such as "how does that make you feel?" I daresay he's carrying feelings of guilt and remorse along with grief. God bless you for befriending him. We'll add him to our prayers.

I knew a pastor who was just wonderfully warm and good at counseling. He helped me work through some issues over a very hard period of my life, and I asked him how he approached listening in his sessions. He said, "I don't have a lot of answers, and I don't know what to say, so I just make sure I've heard everything that seems important to the person and connected with the feelings, then I lift it up to God in prayer."

This is a skill I would like to grow in.

We have often noticed when we walk into a viewing/wake that there is a lot of laughter and talking. When it is our turn to greet the family, the laughter dies down, the women will hug my wife, we don't have to say very much at all. They seem to take comfort from our presence. The laughter and noise is just their way of trying to make death go away. Even at viewings or funerals of our own people very little is needed in most cases. Words are hardly needed - a hug or a word or just the presence is felt. I am glad that my mother was able to leave this life after only 2 weeks of being in bed. My wife says my mother died because she was too stubborn to ask for help - she fell twice two days apart and never recovered. At 94 years of age, her death was a good thing, something to almost celebrate.

Like Hats Off, I was at a funeral, in line to greet the son of the deceased, and there was lots of laughter and smiling... When it was my turn to talk with the son , I chokingly uttered "I don't have anything to say"; at that point his smiling facade fell and tears filled our eyes. He responded "there's nothing to say".

A loving presence comforts more than, dare I say, anything else. Skip the attempts to get a smile or to lighten the mood- weep. Skip the handshake- hug.

Having just gone through a memorial service for our son, just show up in support of the family even if you don't the right words to say or even if you don't have any words to say, your presence and a hug mean so much to those who are left behind to live life without their loved ones. Knowing people cared enough to take time out of their busy schedules and show up meant so much to us.

I used to shy away from attending funerals unless I had to because I didn't know what to say but now will try to do better at attending them more often since I know how important it was to me that people just show up in support.

Friday I will be attending the funeral of my 1st cousin who apparently decided that he could no longer deal with his back pain, a job he hated and some bad choices he had made in life. He was in his mid 40's. His wife & daughter, parents and siblings are devastated, to say the least. Such a death is really difficult to deal with and like horsegal stated, the simple presence of family and friends in such a time means much more than a lot of words. I think perhaps a few weeks and months later is a better time to share some words of encouragement.

GaryK wrote:Friday I will be attending the funeral of my 1st cousin who apparently decided that he could no longer deal with his back pain, a job he hated and some bad choices he had made in life. He was in his mid 40's. His wife & daughter, parents and siblings are devastated, to say the least. Such a death is really difficult to deal with and like horsegal stated, the simple presence of family and friends in such a time means much more than a lot of words. I think perhaps a few weeks and months later is a better time to share some words of encouragement.

I'm sorry to hear of this grief your family is suffering, Gary. Adding you all to our prayers for God's consolation.

I've been thinking about this topic again recently, because the son of our former co-workers (also Bible translators) was killed in an air plane crash mid July. (I did a search on this phrase this morning, and was surprised to find that I had started this topic myself...) He was a flight instructor at the Moody Aviation school in Spokane Washington. He & two students were killed. They don't know yet what happened, but the plane apparently broke apart in the air. And yesterday was the 11th year mark for the death of our daughter's boyfriend. His grave was just a bit off of our route between here and the memorial service for the flight instructor, so we stopped at the grave yard. So, after all of this rambling, here's my thought: Is it better to "sharpen the pain" from time to time like this, stopping at the grave site, etc.? Is a sharp, focused pain better or worse than the dull ache of loss that seems to never leave? I kind of think it is. What are you'all's thoughts on this? (Why do we mark the graves of our loved ones? The Banawa didn't, and basically never return to the burial site, except that some go back & burn candles, which I suspect comes from the observances of the back-woods Brazilians in the area, who practice a sort of rudimentary Catholicism. I hope that's an acceptable way to refer to their form of folk religion.)

Neto wrote:So, after all of this rambling, here's my thought: Is it better to "sharpen the pain" from time to time like this, stopping at the grave site, etc.? Is a sharp, focused pain better or worse than the dull ache of loss that seems to never leave? I kind of think it is. What are you'all's thoughts on this? (Why do we mark the graves of our loved ones? The Banawa didn't, and basically never return to the burial site, except that some go back & burn candles, which I suspect comes from the observances of the back-woods Brazilians in the area, who practice a sort of rudimentary Catholicism. I hope that's an acceptable way to refer to their form of folk religion.)

I think so. I have always preferred open casket funerals where I get a chance to see the body and say good-bye.

I have been at two large funerals (and one small one) this year, two close friends and a neighbor. At one of the funerals I had few people to talk to, I didn't know many of the people there, and I felt out of place, but I was still glad I was there.

Grief takes a long time. I think it's helpful to know that. Sometimes there's an expectation that we should get over it and get on with our lives, but I think we get on with our lives while still carrying the grief, which does fade over time. It's worse and harder if you think you shouldn't feel the grief, that you shouldn't feel it as strongly, or you shouldn't feel it for a long time. Should isn't a good word to combine with grief. The seven stages of grief model is useful in some ways, but I think different people experience grief differently, and we shouldn't expect people to all go through the same sequence.

When I was a child, my parents protected me, they didn't let me know how much they grieved when my grandparents and older relatives died. I talk about that with my mother now when relatives die.

I don't think grief is the opposite of joy. And grief is always a pointer to the ultimate joy that awaits us.

Keeping any kind of in home memorial such as a child's bedroom in memory of a son or daughter would not seem to be healthy. In our old order circles we do have yearly gatherings for those who have experienced accidental deaths in the family - it is a way or remembering and also of sharing with those whose loss is more recent. Without having any experience, it still seems to me that talking about what happened with people who can relate must help in dealing with the loss or grief.

I still don't feel any grief over the death of my parents or sisters; instead, considering their circumstances and or belief in life after death, it is more like the opposite of grief. I miss not being able to ask them questions - they were a source of family information that is gone.