Ongoing Moral Law?

General Christian Theology
silentreader
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Re: Ongoing Moral Law?

Post by silentreader »

gcdonner wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Szdfan wrote:The problem with the terms "ceremonial law" and "moral law" is that the OT Testament never actually uses those categories. That kind of language is a hermeneutical framework that's been set up today as we wrestle with which parts of the OT to continue to follow and which parts to ignore.

I see in Jesus an emphasis on the internal vs. external - our "moral code" as Christians does not depend on an external set of God's law, but rather in what is in our own heart - i.e. the things that we pay attention, the decisions we make, what ultimately has our loyalty. That's what I see as a primary difference between the OT and the NT. Thoughts?
I agree with this, but I'm still struggling with how to put it into words. I think ultimately and theoretically, perfect obedience to OT law, and perfect obedience to NT law, would be designed to bring a person to the same point, but still in need of a Saviour.
I think even the laws distinct to Israel, and what is often called 'ceremonial law' has its counterpart in the NT as separation from the world, perhaps. In the NT, however, the starting point towards gaining this is a transformed mind, as in Romans 12:1&2
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Be at peace my friend, Jesus said this:
Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 
38  This is the first and great commandment. 
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
And Paul said this:
Rom_13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
George, I am at peace, I'm just not able to express it in words that I think will make sense.
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Szdfan
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Re: Ongoing Moral Law?

Post by Szdfan »

One of the things that emerged in my sermon this morning is that it's much easier to follow an external law than it is to internalize it. I think that is what Jesus is calling us to - a consistency between our external actions and are internal thoughts, allegiances, passions and motivations. Israel had the law -- they understood how they were supposed to live and what they are supposed to do. They had God's expectations written out for them, and that still wasn't enough. The prophet Isaiah, for example, condemns Israel's empty worship. If following God's law was enough, then we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

I think this is one reason why discipleship and development is so important to me. Jesus calls us into discipleship and our response to that call is to engage in this lifelong journey of learning and transformation to be more like Jesus. We will always be imperfect disciples, like Christian in Pilgrim's Progress, we will sometimes make good choices and sometimes make mistakes that we will need to repent from, but hopefully, we are heading into the right direction most of the time.

The way I experience my own faith has less to do with my ability to follow some sort of standard or moral code perfectly, but instead whether I am vulnerable and courageous enough to give space for God to work in my life. Whether I'm willing to allow the Scriptures to challenge me and to grow closer to Christ through that struggle. Am I able to surrender to what God calls me to? Am I able to surrender to who I authentically am as made in the image of God? I think to be an authentic follower of Christ and to answer Christ's call with deep authenticity is incredibly difficult and while moral codes can help, they don't really get us there.
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gcdonner
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Re: Ongoing Moral Law?

Post by gcdonner »

Szdfan wrote:One of the things that emerged in my sermon this morning is that it's much easier to follow an external law than it is to internalize it. I think that is what Jesus is calling us to - a consistency between our external actions and are internal thoughts, allegiances, passions and motivations. Israel had the law -- they understood how they were supposed to live and what they are supposed to do. They had God's expectations written out for them, and that still wasn't enough. The prophet Isaiah, for example, condemns Israel's empty worship. If following God's law was enough, then we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

I think this is one reason why discipleship and development is so important to me. Jesus calls us into discipleship and our response to that call is to engage in this lifelong journey of learning and transformation to be more like Jesus. We will always be imperfect disciples, like Christian in Pilgrim's Progress, we will sometimes make good choices and sometimes make mistakes that we will need to repent from, but hopefully, we are heading into the right direction most of the time.

The way I experience my own faith has less to do with my ability to follow some sort of standard or moral code perfectly, but instead whether I am vulnerable and courageous enough to give space for God to work in my life. Whether I'm willing to allow the Scriptures to challenge me and to grow closer to Christ through that struggle. Am I able to surrender to what God calls me to? Am I able to surrender to who I authentically am as made in the image of God? I think to be an authentic follower of Christ and to answer Christ's call with deep authenticity is incredibly difficult and while moral codes can help, they don't really get us there.
Let us not forget the importance of the work of the Holy Spirit in all of this. Without his help we are Pharisees at best.
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