Capitalism and the Gospel

General Christian Theology
Ernie
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Ernie »

I once lived in an area where two Mennonite truss factories operated. They were competitors until a tornado leveled the one business to the ground. The other operating factory offered the non-operational factory the privilege of building trusses in their facility during the night so that the non-operational factory wouldn't lose customers and so that the employees would have income.
This is mutual aid, not capitalism, and it happened in a capitalistic country in which these two companies functioned capitalistically until the time of the tragedy.

As far as I know, they went back to operating capitalistically after 6 months.
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Ernie
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Ernie »

So what are the alternatives to capitalism?
http://listverse.com/2015/06/28/10-pote ... st-system/

I would like to see a voluntary "tribal" model where everyone in a neighborhood gets paid equal pay for equal work and that all live on the same economic plain. I don't yet see a scriptural principle that those with more intellect should live more comfortably than those with less intellect.
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Robert
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Robert »

Robert wrote:I would ask that we try, can not always be done, to show scriptural references that support our viewpoints.
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Robert
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Robert »

[bible]luke 19,1-10[/bible]

I often think of this story. Jesus did not demand anything from Zacchaeus. Zacchaeus gave of his own free will. Jesus did not demand Zacchaeus give all his wealth to the poor. He celebrated his free giving.

This ties to the verse that t1 posted.

[bible]2 Corinthians 9,7[/bible]

I think of the Israelites when they got to Canaan. They set up a deversified government. Each tribe ruled itself. They worked together for "national" security, but mostly self ruled during the time of the Judges. God did not want them to have a king.

[bible]judges 2,16[/bible]

The Judges were from and for each tribe. They would call at times of war for other tribes to support them.

[bible]1 sam 8,1-9[/bible]

They demanded a king, but that displeased God. God did not seem to want a centralized power. He would disperse that power by bringing up Judges from within different tribes. Each tribe has elders who oversaw things. There was no call for socialism or communism. On the contrary, God tends to make his people prosperous.

[bible]gen 1,22[/bible]

This was his first command to us. Be fruitful.

This does not mean that greed is not an issue. We do need to make sure our hearts are not greedy, but you can not legislate compassion. It needs to come from a willing heart. I see no problem with working together and a society caring for and providing for those who can not care for themselves. I do think that is part of what we should do. I see no call in scripture that tells us to give all our possessions to to government. Jesus directed the rich young man to give it to the poor. There is a difference.

Greed and prosperity are two sides of the same coin. We can let greed take over, but that does not mean that prosperity is bad. it means what we do with it is not honoring God. This is the issue I see.
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mike
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by mike »

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
This statement appears to support the capitalist principle of private property. I like the ESV rendering "not willing to work." There are those who are not able to work and who are deserving of assistance by the community. Those who are not willing to work are not deserving of assistance according to this statement of Paul. It also seems to disagree with the concept of equal pay unless there is also equal work.
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Robert
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Robert »

Mike's post made me think about this one also.

[bible]john 10,10[/bible]
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mike
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by mike »

mike wrote:
2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
This statement appears to support the capitalist principle of private property. I like the ESV rendering "not willing to work." There are those who are not able to work and who are deserving of assistance by the community. Those who are not willing to work are not deserving of assistance according to this statement of Paul. It also seems to disagree with the concept of equal pay unless there is also equal work.
The problem with lack of willingness to work is that this unwillingness can be the result of poor or nonexistent training, which isn't the fault of the person. So as a Christian I don't think that we should just disregard these factors when deciding who is "worthy" of assistance.
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mike
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by mike »

The good news of Jesus Christ should be good news to everyone economically speaking. It should even be good news to the person who is not willing to work, because it will help him get off his posterior and better himself by giving him motive and meaning in work.
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Wade
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Wade »

We have not yet really defined what work is?

If it is doing something that is profitable or something that has an earning to it... Then what are we working towards or what do we see as earnings?
Really making money can happen in all kinds of ridiculous ways now a days... Some people don't do much work - in fact in capitalism no body gets much profit off of there own back. Rather it is through getting others to work for you and for them to earn you more than they cost you. And that goes for people who don't even have employees - because of others inventions and products that we can buy at less effort than it would cost us to invent or make them ourselves. This can be really good though too in working together, however the only way I see capitalism work is eventually the people at the end of the line are oppressed.

So how can we even define equal work?
There are lots of people in third world countries that work a lot harder than I do but have way less.

Our widowed neighbour felt bad we came over to help her the other day...
The day before she came over for a visit and it was such a blessing to our family.
When she is humbly willing to accept our help at the cost of some time I believe I am more thankful for that gift of having that opportunity of the learning that my children receive from it than possibly she is receiving it... She could have just paid someone else to do just as easily.
I don't want to define letting someone help you as work but it is doing something. And something that could be more profitable in laying up treasures in heaven. :P

As far as money goes:
15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Can we give in the name of God something with the worldly governments name on it and people will feel the love of God? I think I agree with Robert on the point where he said it is how give it.
1 Corinthians 13: 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
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mike
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by mike »

Wade wrote:the only way I see capitalism work is eventually the people at the end of the line are oppressed.
What do you mean by people at the end of the line?
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