Capitalism and the Gospel

General Christian Theology
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Robert
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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mike wrote: Hasn't this abuse occurred under all kinds of economic systems including capitalism, socialism, feudalism, etc?
Correct. I would suggest that Israel was capitalistic in theory, although not defined in term. For much of human history, capitalism has been functioning. I see it often as I study the context of scripture and cultures. There may be a monarchy or feudal system in place also, but capitalism was functioning, just under restraint.

I agree that the US does not have a pure capitalistic system in place. It is a hybrid. I am okay with that too.
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:That almost guarantees that we will read our own opinions back into Scripture, and not the other way around. The Bible isn't about capitalism.

People have managed to read socialism, capitalism, libertarianism, feminism, and just about every other ism back into the Bible.
I guess you did not read the OP very well.

Money is spoken about often in the OT and NT. It was a very real issue. Lots to look at and draw from.

We also do the exact same for many of the things we define as Christian, dress, talk, culture.
I really had forgotten about the OP, though I had read it. Sorry.

I don't think capitalism is the same thing as money. I don't think the Bible tells governments how to structure their economic systems. It does tell us how Christians should avoid greed, work to support ourselves, be generous to those in need, not gather up wealth in bigger barns, consider the lilies of the fields and not worry about money, etc. I would love to see 10 times as much energy put into discussing these issues as we currently spend discussing economic systems. After all, I think we are true experts on wrestling with what the Bible teaches in our own lives, but few of us are experts on macroeconomic systems. And few of us have that responsibility.
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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Robert wrote:
mike wrote:Hasn't this abuse occurred under all kinds of economic systems including capitalism, socialism, feudalism, etc?
Correct. I would suggest that Israel was capitalistic in theory, although not defined in term.
So a capitalist system would redistribute capital evenly by tribe every 70 years?
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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mike wrote:
JimFoxvog wrote:The Bible doesn't talk about capitalism, per se, but speaks of situations that are often connected to capitalism.
Hasn't this abuse occurred under all kinds of economic systems including capitalism, socialism, feudalism, etc?
Yes, but in a lot of these other systems, there legal checks that safeguard, or get in the way of the Christian from becoming super wealthy.
In order for someone to amass wealth in these other systems, you about need to first break laws: bribe, smuggle, cut corners, or be involved in activities that a Christian would clearly never do.
The capitalistic, free market system removes many of these moral barriers to wealth building. And since these moral barriers are removed, the Christian may find himself at the front line of this battle, instead of behind the lines of this battle at lying or stealing or cheating.

On the other hand, I recognize that Christians in these other systems do still have to deal any temptations that come with wealth.
Last edited by RZehr on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Robert
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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Bootstrap wrote:I would love to see 10 times as much energy put into discussing these issues as we currently spend discussing economic systems.
Feel free to discuss what you want and ignore what you do not want to discuss. We are allowed to have opinions. I don't have to be an expert to discuss things. I am not setting policy, but sharing and listening to learn.

You seem to be getting very black and white about things.
Bootstrap wrote: So a capitalist system would redistribute capital evenly by tribe every 70 years?
Every culture will have some of its own twists and turns on how things are done. If you look at the history of Israel, the Jubilee year was seldom, if ever, celebrated.

I could see that happening. It is a leveling mechanism. A great idea. Each healthy culture needs them.
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:I would love to see 10 times as much energy put into discussing these issues as we currently spend discussing economic systems.
Feel free to discuss what you want and ignore what you do not want to discuss. We are allowed to have opinions. I don't have to be an expert to discuss things. I am not setting policy, but sharing and listening to learn.

You seem to be getting very black and white about things.
I would like to see a Christianity that is mostly about the same things Jesus and the New Testament were mostly about. That's plainly not Capitalism or Socialism or any other macroeconomic ism.

I think I sound more black and white in your excerpted quote than in the original. But I do like our faith to be about the same things the Bible is about. I like the turn that some people have taken, focusing on the temptations we face as Christians in the American economy that are different from the temptations Christians would have faced in other economies.

For instance, I don't think a Christian in first century Corinth, a serf in the middle ages, a slave in Georgia in 1820, or a pastor in East Germany would face the same temptations we do today in the United States. One of the temptations is to see capitalism as our religion, along with political movements. I just don't think the Bible is about capitalism, on either side. It says an awful lot about money and our attitudes toward money. And it doesn't say "greed is good".
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

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Jesus talked a lot about people and their money. Nicodemus and many others who had encounters with Jesus were not poor. They had some capital. The Roman government, while totalitarian, allowed people to accrue wealth.

[bible]john 12,1-8[/bible]

If the poor will always been around, then there will always have to be wealthy to equate poverty with.

Jesus spoke often about our hearts when we give. Again, how can I give if I have nothing to give? Wealth is not evil, the love of money is.

[bible]1 tim 6,1-10[/bible]

Yet, often worked with wealthy people who became Christians.

[bible]1 cor 16,19[/bible]

I order to have a house big enough to meet in, one had to have some wealth.
cap·i·tal·ism
ˈkapədlˌizəm/
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
This is what capitalism was and is. We see this in Israel when Jesus was there. I think Jesus did say a lot and chose not to say some things about capitalism.
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Re: Capitalism and the Gospel

Post by Josh »

temporal1 wrote:This thread, Page 3 -
temporal1 wrote:an observation, and a question for the discussion: :)
1. the U.S. is not a purely capitalistic country, presently, somewhat of a hybrid;
2. are there any existing purely capitalistic countries?
i found this -
Examples of capitalism
http://examples.yourdictionary.com/exam ... alism.html

Ruth 2:2-3
And Ruth the Moabitess said to Naomi,
"Please let me go to the field and glean among the ears of grain after one in whose sight I may find favor." And she said to her, "Go, my daughter." So she departed and went and gleaned in the field after the reapers; and she happened to come to the portion of the field belonging to Boaz ..
How on earth is this capitalism?
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