The Inheritance Swiss Reconciliation with Amish and Mennonites

[Bootstrap]

Eh, is that a threat? I think that was my most active thread on MD. I found the whole thing to be ridiculous and annoying.

Are ridiculous and annoying threads always the most active ones?

[ken_sylvania]

It is unfortunate that the threads regarding the "Amish Apology Tour" have disappeared along with MD.
Well, maybe not so much.

Be careful what you wish for. I have archives.

Eh, is that a threat? I think that was my most active thread on MD. I found the whole thing to be ridiculous and annoying.

But in a captivating kind of way, right? Where you feel like you ought to be able to beat some sense into a fellow but he just doesn't get it?

[MaxPC]

I don't think this is quite the same forgiving as it is taught in the NT.
It seems like we have glommed onto this idea that we can forgive our selves, and we can forgive on the behalf of others. I don't think it is quite correct thinking, or terminology to use the word forgive. Seems like a bit of a God complex to me.

But I do think this is an attempt to address something that is real. I also think it is nice to clarify our feelings toward these groups, as groups. I think it might be a blessing for these people.
Is it really needed? Probably not.

Amen.

Max, isn't this similar to a catholic priest forgiving sins that are not against him?

Good question, RZehr. In the case of a Catholic priest, when they are ordained they are imparted the faculty (capacity) to offer pardon from sins which is based upon quite a few Scriptural references as we interpret them. (I'll send you the list in PM so I don't bunny trail this thread. For my own part, I understand and respect the Anabaptist view of this situation as part of The Body of Christ.

[mike]

But in a captivating kind of way, right? Where you feel like you ought to be able to beat some sense into a fellow but he just doesn't get it?

Too true...

[lesterb]

I don't think this is quite the same forgiving as it is taught in the NT.
It seems like we have glommed onto this idea that we can forgive our selves, and we can forgive on the behalf of others. I don't think it is quite correct thinking, or terminology to use the word forgive. Seems like a bit of a God complex to me.

But I do think this is an attempt to address something that is real. I also think it is nice to clarify our feelings toward these groups, as groups. I think it might be a blessing for these people.
Is it really needed? Probably not.

I discussed this with Ben Girod a number of years ago. In his mind the main thrust went beyond forgiveness to reconciliation. He pointed to a verse on reconciliation. I think it was this one, but I don't remember for certain. He felt that reconciling the past would open the door for Christ's return. To him it seemed to have eschatological implications.

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
(2Co 5:18-19)

[mike]

Lester, that isn't surprising. What a mixed up mess we get into...

[Valerie]

I don't think this is quite the same forgiving as it is taught in the NT.
It seems like we have glommed onto this idea that we can forgive our selves, and we can forgive on the behalf of others. I don't think it is quite correct thinking, or terminology to use the word forgive. Seems like a bit of a God complex to me.

But I do think this is an attempt to address something that is real. I also think it is nice to clarify our feelings toward these groups, as groups. I think it might be a blessing for these people.
Is it really needed? Probably not.

I discussed this with Ben Girod a number of years ago. In his mind the main thrust went beyond forgiveness to reconciliation. He pointed to a verse on reconciliation. I think it was this one, but I don't remember for certain. He felt that reconciling the past would open the door for Christ's return. To him it seemed to have eschatological implications.

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
(2Co 5:18-19)

Well, I have to admit I wept through this (just like a wept through reading the book by John Horsch, Mennonites in Europe) except THIS time it was in a sense, a healing in my own heart- I remember reading the book and starting to feel this anger towards Zwingli- I remember on Christian radio, a pastor praising Zwingli & I just felt so much anger, knowing the history of the Anabaptist. All this to say, I can imagine with these two prior divided groups of Christians who so obviously desiring to be an 'unspotted Bride' when Christ returns (perhaps this is where his idea of eschatology enters in, that if there is any unforgiveness harbored on either side, that would be a 'spotted & wrinkled' Bride?).

It was difficult for me not to see this as a work of the Holy Spirit. People are trying to find New Testament justification for such a meeting of reconciliation but the Holy Spirit moves- not limited to New Testament proofs when He moves-
Well they are serving one Master, or the other- to me to witness so much joy, love & forgiveness and reconciliation- they have been set free to truly love and feel one. To me, it was somewhat of a picture of heaven where every tongue, tribe and nation will join in the Song of the Lamb- and denomination (Man made) walls will come tumbling down.

Thank you for sharing this.
I was given a CD at a Mennonite Relief Benefit that seems to be related to this- by a Christian man FROM Switzerland- couple of years ago.
I wonder what's been going on since this was made- how can God not be pleased with this?

regarding forgiveness on behalf of others maybe this passage, when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the Apostles:
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.