slaves to righteousness

General Christian Theology
KingdomBuilder
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slaves to righteousness

Post by KingdomBuilder »

A big part of Romans 6 focuses on being "slaves to righteousness". A question came to me while reading:
Do we choose to be slaves to God/ righteousness? Meaning is it a conscious decision separate from conversion that we, by our choosing, make?
But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness
Romans 6:17-18

This verse makes we wonder if being set free from sin and becoming slaves of righteousness are one and the same? Are all who have been set free from sin slaves of righteousness?

Hope I'm making sense here. If not, I'll try to clear things up.
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silentreader
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by silentreader »

KingdomBuilder wrote:A big part of Romans 6 focuses on being "slaves to righteousness". A question came to me while reading:
Do we choose to be slaves to God/ righteousness? Meaning is it a conscious decision separate from conversion that we, by our choosing, make?
But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness
Romans 6:17-18

This verse makes we wonder if being set free from sin and becoming slaves of righteousness are one and the same? Are all who have been set free from sin slaves of righteousness?

Hope I'm making sense here. If not, I'll try to clear things up.
Discussing Romans 6 as a whole would certainly be a worthy undertaking, but I'm not sure if we could have a profitable discussion here on MN.
We would have to first of all find common ground on the terminology used. Different terms mean different things to different people.
We would have to agree on what is meant by 'the old man', by 'the old nature', what is meant by 'dying with Christ', 'dying to self', and 'dying daily'. We would have to agree on what 'dies' when we die with Christ, and what are we dealing with that needs to die daily.
Not all of these terms are necessarily used in this chapter, but all are important to understanding it.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by KingdomBuilder »

silentreader wrote:Discussing Romans 6 as a whole would certainly be a worthy undertaking, but I'm not sure if we could have a profitable discussion here on MN.
We would have to first of all find common ground on the terminology used. Different terms mean different things to different people.
We would have to agree on what is meant by 'the old man', by 'the old nature', what is meant by 'dying with Christ', 'dying to self', and 'dying daily'. We would have to agree on what 'dies' when we die with Christ, and what are we dealing with that needs to die daily.
Not all of these terms are necessarily used in this chapter, but all are important to understanding it.
I agree with you. Why do you think it may not be possible to discuss it effectively on MN?
If this thread wants to first transition to a Romans 6 dissection, it certainly can!
I'm a fan of this chapter.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by silentreader »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
silentreader wrote:Discussing Romans 6 as a whole would certainly be a worthy undertaking, but I'm not sure if we could have a profitable discussion here on MN.
We would have to first of all find common ground on the terminology used. Different terms mean different things to different people.
We would have to agree on what is meant by 'the old man', by 'the old nature', what is meant by 'dying with Christ', 'dying to self', and 'dying daily'. We would have to agree on what 'dies' when we die with Christ, and what are we dealing with that needs to die daily.
Not all of these terms are necessarily used in this chapter, but all are important to understanding it.
I agree with you. Why do you think it may not be possible to discuss it effectively on MN?
If this thread wants to first transition to a Romans 6 dissection, it certainly can!
I'm a fan of this chapter.
I guess in my opinion, there is going to be considerable difference among us in interpreting the terms.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by KingdomBuilder »

silentreader wrote:I guess in my opinion, there is going to be considerable difference among us in interpreting the terms.

I think that is definitely prevalent on the long, very specific threads. Maybe we could just agree without getting crazy specific, hypothetical, or controversial.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by silentreader »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
silentreader wrote:I guess in my opinion, there is going to be considerable difference among us in interpreting the terms.

I think that is definitely prevalent on the long, very specific threads. Maybe we could just agree without getting crazy specific, hypothetical, or controversial.
Unfortunately, I think in this case, the terms probably need specific definitions in order for Romans 6, 7 and 8 to make sense as a unified whole.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by KingdomBuilder »

silentreader wrote: Unfortunately, I think in this case, the terms probably need specific definitions in order for Romans 6, 7 and 8 to make sense as a unified whole.
I'm not saying it should be vague, but things on here seem to get a little overboard when people decide to over complicate things. The scripture is accessible to the wise men and the not-so-wise men. Usually the case is just a few throw some things in and it creates a bunny trail that dictates the thread.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by silentreader »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
silentreader wrote: Unfortunately, I think in this case, the terms probably need specific definitions in order for Romans 6, 7 and 8 to make sense as a unified whole.
I'm not saying it should be vague, but things on here seem to get a little overboard when people decide to over complicate things. The scripture is accessible to the wise men and the not-so-wise men. Usually the case is just a few throw some things in and it creates a bunny trail that dictates the thread.
There is no doubt we over-complicate things when we add our own preferences to Bible truth and try to make them fit. I was reading one thread just now that is a prime example.
And yet when it comes to Bible truth, we dare not take an 'oh well' attitude, or be satisfied with being vague or sloppy.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by gcdonner »

To go back to the OP, I believe that Paul defines the perspective when he says:
Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
God is doing the work, but unless we by faith reckon ourselves to be partakers, it is of no effect.
It is very much like the attitude difference between those who continue to refer to believers as "sinners saved by grace", with full expectation to continue to fall or those who embrace the teaching of the NT that we are already "saints".
As I have said before, this does not make us sinless, but it does enable us to sin less.
Jesus died not just to deliver us from the penalty of sin, but also the power of sin.
1Jn_3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The oft misunderstood passage of I Jn 2:1 says this:
1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 
John says, "IF", not "when", which is the mistake and mentality of those who choose to continue to refer to themselves as sinners saved by grace.

We were sinners, but now we are saints! We have been separated from sin and consecrated unto God.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Re: slaves to righteousness

Post by gcdonner »

I would enjoy the chapter of Romans 6. It is one of my favorite chapters. Let's define the terms according to the way scripture uses them and work it out together!
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