Them there Catholics

[Bootstrap]

Inspired by the Them there Protestants thread.

MCC and MC-USA work with Catholics on some things.

Do Conservative Mennonites work with Catholics on anything? Do they see Catholics as more or less equivalent to Protestants, or do they see them as different? Does it depend on which group of Protestants?

[joshuabgood]

Most conservative Mennonites (especially the moderates and fundamentals) would have a dimmer view of Catholics than Protestants.

[Valerie]

Most conservative Mennonites (especially the moderates and fundamentals) would have a dimmer view of Catholics than Protestants.

Probably because of the persecution in the early days of Anabaptism, and the practices that were being done by Roman Catholics at that time that started the whole Reformation to begin with-
Yes I have heard very negative remarks when being in a Mennonite setting and 'Catholics' came up. I was not impressed with the attitude either- I immediately wondered what God thought of this.

But also visiting certain Anabaptist churches, and as visitors we were taken aside by members after the service, we were not comfortable either with their use of criticizing other Christians, and their continual use and phrase "those 'so called Christians' " that we were immediately reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican and knew we couldn't fellowship with these kinds of attitudes- especially since we knew so many servants of the Lord who love the Lord and served Him, but didn't 'look' the part outwardly- we just couldn't feel comfortable in that kind of attitude.

I love the ministries of Christian pregnancy crisis centers- I have enjoyed the fact that when there is a purposeful ministry such as this, that all denominational walls come down to serve the Lord together.

[Ernie]

I've never heard anything complimentary about the Catholic church in ultra, intermediate, moderate, and fundamental conservative settings in my 40+ years, except from an acquaintance who is an instructor at Faith Builders, who studied in Catholic seminary and has some appreciation for the role that the Catholic church played in sorting out doctrine in the early centuries after Constantine. He still attends Catholic church at times with students and will pray with the congregation but that is the extent of his involvement.

Probably because of the persecution in the early days of Anabaptism, and the practices that were being done by Roman Catholics at that time that started the whole Reformation to begin with-

The Anabaptists suffered more at the hands of Protestants than at the hands of Catholics so I'm not sure this is accurate. I think it has more to do with Anabaptists' view of the Bible, salvation, sacraments, and church being more similar to Evangelical Protestants than to Catholics. Icons, saints, transubstantiation, infant baptism, popes, pompous Vatican, etc. would be anathema to Evangelicals and cons. Anabaptists.

[Valerie]

I've never heard anything complimentary about the Catholic church in ultra, intermediate, moderate, and fundamental conservative settings in my 40+ years, except from an acquaintance who is an instructor at Faith Builders, who studied in Catholic seminary and has some appreciation for the role that the Catholic church played in sorting out doctrine in the early centuries after Constantine. He still attends Catholic church at times with students and will pray with the congregation but that is the extent of his involvement.

Probably because of the persecution in the early days of Anabaptism, and the practices that were being done by Roman Catholics at that time that started the whole Reformation to begin with-

The Anabaptists suffered more at the hands of Protestants than at the hands of Catholics so I'm not sure this is accurate. I think it has more to do with Anabaptists' view of the Bible, salvation, sacraments, and church being more similar to Evangelical Protestants than to Catholics. Icons, saints, transubstantiation, infant baptism, popes, pompous Vatican, etc. would be anathema to Evangelicals and cons. Anabaptists.

True, I understand this- but there is also the recognition that many Protestants or Evangelicals or other denominations didn't even exist at the time of the persecution-
It is interesting thought that many Anabaptist denominations have their own 't'raditions that are not found in Scripture so it is somewhat perplexing that traditions by the Church whether T or t traditions (I've been explained the difference from the ancient faith) would necessarily then be the basis of rejecting them- perhaps certain traditions they find alarming or in their opinion are CONTRARY to Scripture is where the indignation/rejection lies?

[Ernie]

perhaps certain traditions they find alarming or in their opinion are CONTRARY to Scripture is where the indignation/rejection lies?

Yes.
Conservative Anabaptists value tradition and church authority. They believe that traditions should be those that promote scriptural teaching and that church authority should be based on Apostolic Doctrine, not on some doctrine concocted later on. Unfortunately they cannot see themselves objectively and sometimes do the very same things but at least it is not in their polity, and a later generation can reverse it if they wish.

[MaxPC]

Conservative Anabaptists value tradition and church authority. They believe that traditions should be those that promote scriptural teaching and that church authority should be based on Apostolic Doctrine, not on some doctrine concocted later on. Unfortunately they cannot see themselves objectively and sometimes do the very same things but at least it is not in their polity, and a later generation can reverse it if they wish.

Ernie, I'm interested in what you perceive as Catholic church authority based on "doctrine concocted later on". Can you give me some specific examples?

[lesterb]

Just to show how strong the feeling can get...

Some years ago the Nationwide Fellowship minister's meeting was held in southern Ontario. The group hosting it rented a Catholic facility for the meeting, since their own buildings weren't large enough. But when word got out that the meetings would be held in a Catholic facility, people started calling in that they wouldn't come if they didn't change the meeting place. The protest got so powerful that the hosting congregation was forced to look for a different facility last minute.

Mind you, these were church leaders, and they should have known better. It was a very childish reaction.

There are certain ways that I feel Anabaptists and Catholics aren't that far apart. For instance, the Catholic Church in Canada has been willing to speak up publicly against the increasing LGBTQ pressures that we face. Most Protestants have simply caved in. I understand the doctrinal issues, and I couldn't support the Catholic system. But at least they are willing to stick to an unpopular position when they feel it is right.

[Neto]

Most conservative Mennonites (especially the moderates and fundamentals) would have a dimmer view of Catholics than Protestants.

Probably because of the persecution in the early days of Anabaptism, and the practices that were being done by Roman Catholics at that time that started the whole Reformation to begin with-

The Anabaptists suffered more at the hands of Protestants than at the hands of Catholics so I'm not sure this is accurate. I think it has more to do with Anabaptists' view of the Bible, salvation, sacraments, and church being more similar to Evangelical Protestants than to Catholics. Icons, saints, transubstantiation, infant baptism, popes, pompous Vatican, etc. would be anathema to Evangelicals and cons. Anabaptists.

My understanding is that the anabaptists suffered persecution by what ever group controlled the state church where they lived. For the Dutch it was the Catholics, because the Spanish controlled the region during that time. For anabaptists in other places it was the Zwinglians, the Calvinists, or the Lutherans. In the Low Countries, the Calvinists suffered along with the anabaptists. (At one point the anabaptists gave assistance to Dutch Calvinists, and these Calvinists wrote to the Swiss Calvinists, urging them to stop persecuting the anabaptists in their midst.) I imagine that the Catholics were persecuted by some of these Protestant state churches as well.

In our experience in Brazil, while we of course had our differences, conservative Catholics were often the ones who were the most open to us as people, and the most supportive of our lifestyle. (Others who took a similar attitude were the Episcopalians and the extreme Pentecostals.)

But I do agree (re: Ernie's comment) that we find a greater commonality with Evangelical Protestants in doctrine than we do with Catholics. But at the same time I think that I would still say that Brazilian Catholics were more open to discussions where they disagreed with us than were most Evangelicals. (This is just an impression I have.)

[ohio jones]

A pastor who is now in BMA stated that on several occasions, when traveling in a place where there was no Mennonite church, he attended the local Catholic church on a Sunday morning rather than looking for something more compatible. There's one in every town, nearly everyone knows where it is if you need directions, and you know pretty much what to expect when you walk in the door.

I've remembered that a few times when I wanted to see inside, the building was closed to visitors unless you were attending the service, and it wasn't convenient to return later.