Pietism

[Ernie]

There are two sides to every Amish excommunication. I'm finding that those excommunicated for "preaching the gospel" have an actual story of being excommunicated for being unsubmissive, trying to convince all their brethren they aren't saved, and often preaching Luther's false gospel.

Ultimately I think us outsiders should focus a bit less on internal Amish politics. The last person I know who was in the process of joining an Amish church had a big change in her life there and that's where she got "sold" on Anabaptism.

An Old Order Mennonite young man who is in a PHD program at Penn State right now, and is fully submitted and committed to his church, told me this week that when people with the "Amish story" learn that he is still part of the OO Menn. church, they are quick to make some disclaimer so as to not reflect too negatively on him for staying with his church.
He is noticing that the folks with "Amish Story" will join Charity type churches, at the same time the Charity young men his age or leaving the Charity church. They have a "Charity story" that sounds very similar to the Amish Story.

If only everybody could see this.

[Josh]

Since Charity groups tend to be composed of people whose parents or grandparents are Amish, it is not surprising an identical culture emerges - complete with the "story".

Certain groups like Church of God Restoration do a brisk business preying on these kinds of people. I'm convinced some of them are going to get converted from group to group until the day they die.

[Adam]

What is the "Amish story" exactly, and how is it similar to the "story" of folks leaving Charity?

[Ernie]

Here is a typical story that fits what we are calling the "Amish Story" or the "Charity story"...
A child grows up in and Old Order or conservative setting. His parents and/or church get a lot of things wrong. They put a lot of emphasis on loyalty to the church and obedience to certain Bible commands or church applications. When this child becomes a youth, he reacts to what is wrong and finds it difficult to notice what is good and right. Then someone comes along and tells him that good works will not save you and that only Jesus can save you. He has heard this all his life but somehow the way the new person says it really resonates with him. He "gets saved" and leaves his growing up setting and from then on cannot get done talking about how unscriptural or unspiritual the people are in the setting where he grew up. He then has a family of his own and his children grow up saying the same things about the setting he chose to raise them in.

Here is the not-so-typical story... This also happens in Amish and Charity settings...
A child grows up in and Old Order or conservative setting. His parents and/or church get a lot of things wrong. They put a lot of emphasis on loyalty to the church and obedience to certain Bible commands or church applications. When this child becomes a youth, he notices this and begins searching for answers. He prays and reads the Bible. He studies Christian history and observes his fellow youth. He is disturbed by what is wrong but is able to distill what is right. He "gets saved" in his Old Order or conservative setting, and seeks to be a blessing to his church. If he decides to stay with his church, he is generally respected. If he does not stay with his church, he may wait until God opens a door for him to leave peaceably. If after considerable time it becomes obvious that he cannot leave without getting excommunicated, he may still leave, but he retains his honor among those who know him well. Many of his children grow up appreciating his values and his respect for other people, and want to raise their families similarly.

[Wade]

That definition is not what the average conservative Anabaptist thinks of when he hears that word.

Pietism became a word of condemnation soon after the beginnings of the Charity movement. To most people it simply meant...

Someone who does not accept the authority of the church. IE. Individualistic. Led personally by the Spirit, etc.

This is how I have seen this word and the word individualistic used, always judgmentally...
Every time it has been used towards me it has been when I had absolutely no physical way of complying with something in the church...
And each time I wanted to comply...
I can't think of a more hurtful term for someone "on the outside" that actually has no desire to be "outside" the church. I pity the ones using these words and the testimony the church is leaving using these words to condemn and feel sorry and sad for those wrongly being called them...


Thank you Ernie for bringing up, "The Pilgrim Church," by Broadbent. It has been very helpful and I recommend it to any new comers that are like me, growing up completely outside with no understanding how churches and different denominations have come to be and is confused by all the different groups, accusations, rumors, and other things in Christianity.

I need a break from MN.
God bless,

[gcdonner]

That definition is not what the average conservative Anabaptist thinks of when he hears that word.

Pietism became a word of condemnation soon after the beginnings of the Charity movement. To most people it simply meant...

Someone who does not accept the authority of the church. IE. Individualistic. Led personally by the Spirit, etc.

This is how I have seen this word and the word individualistic used, always judgmentally...
Every time it has been used towards me it has been when I had absolutely no physical way of complying with something in the church...
And each time I wanted to comply...
I can't think of a more hurtful term for someone "on the outside" that actually has no desire to be "outside" the church. I pity the ones using these words and the testimony the church is leaving using these words to condemn and feel sorry and sad for those wrongly being called them...


Thank you Ernie for bringing up, "The Pilgrim Church," by Broadbent. It has been very helpful and I recommend it to any new comers that are like me, growing up completely outside with no understanding how churches and different denominations have come to be and is confused by all the different groups, accusations, rumors, and other things in Christianity.

I need a break from MN.
God bless,

Ultimately, when we stand before God, how will we be judged? According how well we submitted to a system or how well we followed HIS guidance? There is advantage to being submitted to a congregation, but at what point do we bury our heads in the sand? I would never have become a member of an Anabaptist church or fellowshipped with Mennonites had I simply submitted to the Baptist church and it's leaders that I grew up under.

The "We are right, so you should submit to us" mentality is not limited to Mennonite churches or any other denomination, as I have found in my own experiences. I found it interesting, that those Mennonite churches we did fellowship at, were profoundly pleased that the Spirit of God led us to them and that we had been led to many similar doctrinal beliefs. Thankfully, I never burned any bridges behind me and am sure that I would be welcomed in any of those churches again, under similar circumstances. I have found it best to walk away in peace when the time seemed right.

Wade it is best to be at peace with God as your priority. HE knows our path and has prepared the way for you on your journey. Follow HIM!

[MaxPC]

Well said, GC.

Wade, praying for your peace and for you to return to us.