MennoNet.com

Very interesting thread... These are ideas I've never been exposed to

KingdomBuilder wrote:Very interesting thread... These are ideas I've never been exposed to

Many of these ideas would also be considered false teaching in most conservative Anabaptist settings.

Josh wrote:

RZehr wrote:Regarding the justness of eternal punishment, it may be helpful to remember that hell was not originally designed for us. It was actually "prepared for the devil and his angels" Mat. 25:41.
And so if we live like devils, then why would we not get the same punishment?

I agree we might get the same punishment - I just don't see that human beings who go to hell end up with eternal life.

Maybe the death is figurative and the fire is not figurative. Or it maybe that the body is "consumed" but the spirit is not.

lesterb wrote:

KingdomBuilder wrote:Very interesting thread... These are ideas I've never been exposed to

Many of these ideas would also be considered false teaching in most conservative Anabaptist settings.

I can imagine.

Josh wrote:

RZehr wrote:Regarding the justness of eternal punishment, it may be helpful to remember that hell was not originally designed for us. It was actually "prepared for the devil and his angels" Mat. 25:41.
And so if we live like devils, then why would we not get the same punishment?

I agree we might get the same punishment - I just don't see that human beings who go to hell end up with eternal life.

Can eternal punishment in a lake of fire really be called "life?"

RZehr wrote: How is a fire everlasting without everlasting fuel?

Perhaps it means that the effects are everlasting, not that the fire is literally everlasting or indeed that there is actually some physical fire. What kind of fire would it take to consume a soul? Is there any literal, material fire that can burn a soul?
We seem to forget that these are word pictures and not intended to be taken in a materialistic form.

Just as I demonstrated above (near the beginning of this thread) the fires that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah are referred to as everlasting fire, yet we don't see them burning here on earth anymore do we? Look again at how scripture uses the terms and defines them. I am comfortable interpreting scripture the way that scripture itself defines the terms.
Please see the 4 passages tied together with the arrows.

lesterb wrote:

KingdomBuilder wrote:Very interesting thread... These are ideas I've never been exposed to

Many of these ideas would also be considered false teaching in most conservative Anabaptist settings.

But does that make it so? If the scripture defines itself contrary to traditional teachings, shouldn't we be ready to follow scripture? That is how I came to the Mennonites in the first place, by following scripture, contrary to what I had been taught in the Baptist & Pentecostal churches.

With your reasoning we should never expect anyone to be converted, but to cling to tradition in hopes of making it into God's heaven.

I am interested in TRUTH, not tradition and when they cross, I will always follow the TRUTH.

ken_sylvania wrote:

Josh wrote:

RZehr wrote:Regarding the justness of eternal punishment, it may be helpful to remember that hell was not originally designed for us. It was actually "prepared for the devil and his angels" Mat. 25:41.
And so if we live like devils, then why would we not get the same punishment?

I agree we might get the same punishment - I just don't see that human beings who go to hell end up with eternal life.

Can eternal punishment in a lake of fire really be called "life?"

That depends on what you mean. If life means existence, which is it's general meaning, then yes. This whole concept of eternal torment is based on the idea of an immortal soul. There are very few who believe that it is a physical body that is consigned to hellfire. Remember too that both death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. What does that tell you about the nature of the lake of fire? What that means is the ultimately both death and the grave will be eliminated...forever! No more death, no more grave, ever again, at all. This is the place of the second death as well. Total elimination.

Mat_10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Note, Jesus does not speak of eternal torment, but of destruction.

G622

ἀπόλλυμι
apóllumi or apolúō; fut. apolésō, 2d aor. apōlómēn, perf. apolṓleka, 2d perf. apólōla, mid. fut. apoloúmai, from apó (G575) an intens., the mid. óllumi (n.f.), to destroy. The force of apó here is away or wholly; therefore, the verb is stronger than the simple óllumi. To destroy, mid. be destroyed, perish. Also from óllumi (n.f.): ólethros (G3639), rain, destruction.
(I) Act. form:
(A) To destroy, cause to perish, trans.: (1) Spoken of things figuratively (1Co_1:19, meaning to bring to naught, render void the wisdom of the wise, quoted from Isa_29:14). (2) Of persons, to destroy, put to death, cause to perish...

RZehr wrote:

Josh wrote:

RZehr wrote:Regarding the justness of eternal punishment, it may be helpful to remember that hell was not originally designed for us. It was actually "prepared for the devil and his angels" Mat. 25:41.
And so if we live like devils, then why would we not get the same punishment?

I agree we might get the same punishment - I just don't see that human beings who go to hell end up with eternal life.

Maybe the death is figurative and the fire is not figurative. Or it maybe that the body is "consumed" but the spirit is not.

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 

We'll have to see just how interesting we can make next Sunday's SS lesson on the rich man and Lazarus!