What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

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MaxPC
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by MaxPC »

Soloist wrote:So if I am following you correctly, you say the punishment for not following a Sabbath is you lose a wonderful day of rest and it doesn't matter the day you do it on even though the commandment states it is the 7th day?
That's not what I see him saying.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Josh »

Apparently non-Christians will be judged for staying at work late on Fridays after sundown.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Soloist wrote:So if I am following you correctly, you say the punishment for not following a Sabbath is you lose a wonderful day of rest and it doesn't matter the day you do it on even though the commandment states it is the 7th day?
The general principle is always for the 7th day, but remember not everyone is free to rest on the Sabbath, just as in Christianity a pastor does not rest on Sundays.
Jesus demonstrated the allowance of God, in showing the meaning of the Sabbath, beyond a mere commandment.
Mat_12:5  Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
When Jesus was speaking of Sabbath being made for man and not man for the Sabbath, he was demonstrating the purpose of Sabbath, for the need of rest for our bodies, not just a requirement of God. As the writer to the Hebrews demonstrated, Sabbath continues to be applied to the Christian in a totally different way than just observing a day. We are to cease from our works (for salvation) to enter into God's rest, by receiving the completed work of Christ. (See Heb 4)
The institution of worship on the first day of the week does not and never has abrogated Sabbath, either of the day or of it's great purpose, a blessing of rest and recuperation from our chores.
The American 5 day work week is a direct result of the observance of Sabbath (either Jewish or Christian) as was common in the earlier part of our nation's history.

I won't and can't justify ignoring the 7th day Sabbath as commanded by God, though it was given as a sign between YHWH and the OC people. That sign, however predates the 10 commandments even as recorded in the 10 commandments themselves:
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 
11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:Apparently non-Christians will be judged for staying at work late on Fridays after sundown.
I am sorry for you Josh.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Soloist »

Now I think I understand where you are coming from.

If I might say, maybe we as Christians come across with our convictions too strong sometimes saying that someone who does things differently are not following God.
For instance, I could say anyone who uses anything from those two cell lines(vaccines) isn't following God but that would be incorrect unless that person was defying his conviction from the Holy Spirit. Likewise with eating idol meat or worship days.
For you personally, Saturday is the day you are convicted to worship God and take your day of rest. For me, I have no conviction either way and would be content on either day.

I do completely agree that God has given us a gift, a day of rest and we should take one.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Bootstrap »

gcdonner wrote:My point is, that even under the NT, sin is defined by violation of the law of God, ie, the 10 Commandments.
You lose me there, George. I don't think "The Law of God" is the same thing as the 10 Commandments, and I don't see the kind of emphasis on the 10 Commandments in the New Testament that you suggest. In Acts 15, when the Jewish church wrote a letter to the Gentiles freeing them from many Jewish practices, they are told this:
28 For it was the Holy Spirit’s decision—and ours—to put no greater burden on you than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from food offered to idols, from blood, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. You will do well if you keep yourselves from these things.
There is no mention of the 10 Commandments or Sabbath keeping here. I don't know of any place in the New Testament where Gentiles are told to treat the 10 Commandments the way the Jews did.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Bootstrap »

plain wrote:What I like ....
-Contract ethics (not saying other ethics, eg. Natural law, are wrong).
This seems to refer to Romans 1? Can you tell me more about contract ethics?
plain wrote:What I do not like ...
-Focus on sin control, instead of focus on good deeds.
Yes. If you put your energy into loving and serving others, it's surprising how much easier the fight against sin becomes. Putting your energy into theological or political debates does not have that effect.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by MaxPC »

Soloist wrote:Now I think I understand where you are coming from.

If I might say, maybe we as Christians come across with our convictions too strong sometimes saying that someone who does things differently are not following God.
For instance, I could say anyone who uses anything from those two cell lines(vaccines) isn't following God but that would be incorrect unless that person was defying his conviction from the Holy Spirit. Likewise with eating idol meat or worship days.
For you personally, Saturday is the day you are convicted to worship God and take your day of rest. For me, I have no conviction either way and would be content on either day.

I do completely agree that God has given us a gift, a day of rest and we should take one.
Well said, Soloist.
:up:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Bootstrap wrote:
gcdonner wrote:My point is, that even under the NT, sin is defined by violation of the law of God, ie, the 10 Commandments.
You lose me there, George. I don't think "The Law of God" is the same thing as the 10 Commandments, and I don't see the kind of emphasis on the 10 Commandments in the New Testament that you suggest. In Acts 15, when the Jewish church wrote a letter to the Gentiles freeing them from many Jewish practices, they are told this:
28 For it was the Holy Spirit’s decision—and ours—to put no greater burden on you than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from food offered to idols, from blood, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. You will do well if you keep yourselves from these things.
There is no mention of the 10 Commandments or Sabbath keeping here. I don't know of any place in the New Testament where Gentiles are told to treat the 10 Commandments the way the Jews did.
Did you look at my list of NT scriptures that correlate with the 10 commandments? While they are not always specified as the 10 commandments, they are nevertheless itemized and used as definitions of sin.
Jesus said that to follow them was the path to eternal life at least twice that we have recorded. Paul uses them to define sin on numerous occasions. It seems pretty straight forward to me.
The council at Jerusalem didn't define everything that was sin, only that the Gentiles were not required to follow all the purity laws and primarily circumcision, which was the issue of the day. Just like the council of Nicaea did not address all the issues facing the church at that time, only those matters that were of immediate concern.
The council in Jerusalem is not the final word on all things spiritual for Gentiles. If it were, then why was there a need for the council in Nicaea? Why would there be a need to teach scripture if all we had to do was memorize what the Jerusalem council addressed?

Where do you get the idea that adultery is sin? The 10 Commanments, which was the foundation for the teaching of Jesus on the issue as well as other sin issues he addressed.

Of course we can eliminate all of the teachings of Jesus because they were given to Jews subject to the OC and not to Gentiles, right?
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Soloist wrote:Now I think I understand where you are coming from.

If I might say, maybe we as Christians come across with our convictions too strong sometimes saying that someone who does things differently are not following God.
For instance, I could say anyone who uses anything from those two cell lines(vaccines) isn't following God but that would be incorrect unless that person was defying his conviction from the Holy Spirit. Likewise with eating idol meat or worship days.
For you personally, Saturday is the day you are convicted to worship God and take your day of rest. For me, I have no conviction either way and would be content on either day. I didn't say that I am or do, did I?

I do completely agree that God has given us a gift, a day of rest and we should take one.
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