What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

[gcdonner]

I don't think the New Testament emphasizes the 10 commandments.

Yes, teachings by Jesus and others definitely rhyme with the 10 commandments. But what Jesus requires is more, and different. And the orientation is different. We turn to God with confidence and are transformed, living by his power. We do need to see and acknowledge our sin so we can turn to God in humility and be transformed, but we can't get there on our own power, and the New Testament is not about obeying lists of commandments.

On the other hand, if we follow the New Testament, we will also find ourselves obeying the 10 commandments.*

* Except for keeping the Sabbath, which was Saturday, as Gentiles. Are there others that we might not obey?

Did you see my post above with many (not all) of the references to the 10 commandments in the NT?

[lesterb]

Hmm. I've mostly ignored this thread but went back over some of it just now.

I think someone should add ...

Tit_3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

...to the OP. George you given us a pretty good illustration of straining at a gnat.

[gcdonner]

Hmm. I've mostly ignored this thread but went back over some of it just now.

I think someone should add ...

Tit_3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

...to the OP. George you given us a pretty good illustration of straining at a gnat.

Really? I guess you have missed the point too...
Note:
I have NEVER said we are "under the law".
I have NEVER said that we need to worship on Saturday.
What do you think I have said that is contrary to scripture?
All those who have disagreed with me (except Bootstrap) have failed to give any scripture for their perspective.
So, Lesterb, is it OK for you to commit adultery and if not then why not?
BTW, thanks for another cheap shot with no constructive input into this thread...

[Josh]

Sorry, but I'm at the point where I take it emotionally and personally when accused that not believing in Sabbath keeping is equivalent to adultery.

I don't think I can continue productive discussion about this. I have provided scriptures (including a new thread) and just keep being accused of not wanting to obey the Bible.

Believe me, if I thought Sabbath keeping would curry me favour with God and merit his blessing me, I would do it in a heartbeat. It isn't a big deal to me, and would be more convenient than avoiding working/commerce on Sundays.

[gcdonner]

Sorry, but I'm at the point where I take it emotionally and personally when accused that not believing in Sabbath keeping is equivalent to adultery.

I don't think I can continue productive discussion about this. I have provided scriptures (including a new thread) and just keep being accused of not wanting to obey the Bible.

Believe me, if I thought Sabbath keeping would curry me favour with God and merit his blessing me, I would do it in a heartbeat. It isn't a big deal to me, and would be more convenient than avoiding working/commerce on Sundays.

I never said anything about Sabbath "keeping". You have been so busy trying to disprove the 10 commandments from any relevance at all that you haven't really read what I have written have you? Perhaps if you would interact instead of re-acting and discuss instead of accusing you would understand better.
I NEVER said anything about observing the 7th day Sabbath, you brought that up.
You have been shouting back at me instead of reading what I actually said.
What happened to "mennodiscuss"? The discuss part got lost in the translation I guess.

[MaxPC]

Parallel of 10 Commandments with NT teachings

1.Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Matt 4:10; 22:37-40; Mk 12:30-31; Lk 10:27; I Cor 8:4-6; Eph 5:5: IJn 5:21

2. Exo 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image…
Acts 15:20; I Cor 10:7,14; Rms 1:18-32; IICor 6:14-18; Gal 5:19-21

3. Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain…
Col 3:8; Matt 12:31-32; Mk 3:28-29; 7:20-23; Lk 12:10

4. Exo 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy…
Mk 2:27-28; Matt 12:1-8; Lk 6:1-5; Jn 5:10, 17; Heb 4:1-11

5. Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother…
Eph 6:1-3; Matt 19:17-21; Mk 10:19-21; Lk 18:20; IITim 3:2

6. Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
IJn 3:15; Matt 5:21-22; Mk 10:19; Lk 18:20-21; Rms 13:9-10; Ja 2:11;

7. Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Matt 19:3-12,18; Matt 5:27-32; Mk 10:11-12,19; Lk 18:20; Rms 13:9-10

8. Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Eph 4:28; Matt 19:18; Mk 10:19; Lk 18:20; Rms 13:9

9. Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Matt 15:17-20; Matt 19:18; Mk 10:19; Lk 18:20; Rms 13:9

10. Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet…
I Cor 6:10; Eph 5:3-5; Heb 13:5; Mk 7:22; Lk 12:15; Rms 7:7; 13:9; Col 3:5;
ITim 3:3; IThess 2:5; Gal 5:19-21

GC, you did a great job of cross referencing "The Ten" with the NT verses.

[Valerie]

If the 10 commandments apply, why should we separate those from the other teachings God gave specifically at that time?
We added the break, we added the header...

Someone I know thinks we mostly argue about semantics of words. "The 10 commandments don't apply because they are the old covenant, only the teachings of Jesus". versus "The 10 commandments apply, Jesus confirmed them"

With that being said, I lean towards Justin Martyrs conviction on the issue and where Paul speaks on not judging each other on Sabbath keeping.
We could also get bunny trailed on the exact day. Is the Sabbath still the original Sabbath? Two groups of Jews argue that...
I think the intent of the heart is the real honoring piece, not the specific day.

With everything Justin says, he never claims the Sabbath was changed to Sunday and some of his writing does suggest that there were Christian Sabbath keepers at the time too.

“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying, Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and, in a word, takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For he was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday): and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the sun, having appeared to his apostles and disciples, he taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.” Chap. lxvii.

“The new law requires you to keep perpetual Sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you; and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true Sabbaths of God.”

I appreciate you sharing this-
There are other early church writers besides Justin Martyr (he lived between 100 & 165 AD) who explain why the Church held their worship day together as a congregation, on Sunday.
I don't read anywhere where they started calling Sunday the Sabbath Day- I believe that was more of a Protestant/Reformation era invention or error. I hear some people call Sunday, the Sabbath day and that is error from all I've read-
The early Church (and to this day, the EO's at least) acknowledge Saturday as the Sabbath, not Sunday. It is considered a holy day- and there is a prayer service Saturday evening. It is not treated with the same "Mosaic laws" as the Jews but it is still honored as the Sabbath Day, and Sunday became the Lord's day as you shared, and there are many very early writings about this, including Apostle John in Revelation 1:10. People can speculate about this all day long but by the beginning of the 1st century, all churches the Apostles started, were meeting on Sundays-
Perhaps this is where 'the week end' came from- not sure-
However it has WRONGLY been attributed to Constantine and related to the "Sun god" and that is absolutely false. Christians met on Sundays in the 1st century, it was established as such- and Constantine 'endorsed' what was ALREADY in practice. Had NOTHING to do with the 'sun god' at all.
It's one reason I appreciate the ancient church keeping track of all these things for 2000 years so when disputes come up, they can speak into it.
Also Hebrews 4 was brought up in the list to support New Testament Scriptures about Sabbath Day rest- from what I read, the reference to this rest being talked about in Hebrews 4 is not 'Sabbath Day Rest' but a reference to the third rest, the perfect , final rest of the Kingdom of heaven- and is tied to Romans 3:11- "So I swore in My wrath, They shall never enter My rest." So these passages really aren't speaking into Sabbath Day-

[gcdonner]

It seems that MOST of you have missed my point altogether, and I take responsibility for that in not communicating more clearly.
My point is, that even under the NT, sin is defined by violation of the law of God, ie, the 10 Commandments. We are NOT bound by the law, but still will pay the penalties of it if/when we violate it, except as John puts it:

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 
2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 
3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 
4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 
5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 
6  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 
I encourage you to continue reading this passage.
The 10 commandments are the definition of sin, even as Paul tells us:

Rom 7:7  What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 

And it directs us to Christ himself:

Gal 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

For those of you who are troubled by the Sabbath, you forget or overlook it's purpose, which Jesus stated as being a gift, a blessing for us as men.

Mar_2:27  ...The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath...

It is a scientifically proven fact that the body needs one day in 7 to rest and recuperate properly. If you look on a sabbath day (notice I said, "a sabbath day") as something that hinders or binds you, then you have missed the intended blessing. The term "sabbath" means "rest". If you forsake it, it is to your own detriment. Do you HAVE to? No, but you will miss the blessing and pay the price for not receiving your rest. It is also a reminder/symbol of our ceasing from our own works for salvation and accepting God's gracious gift that is not of works. Please do remember, however, that we are created in Christ Jesus "unto good works".

I fear that the traditions of men are robbing many of you of your adherence to scripture and the blessings of God found therein. As Anabaptists who often are strong on man made traditions and laws, you are trading away God's blessing found in his word and set forth in the 10 commandments, which are not there to hurt but to help and provide a blessing.
When we get to heaven, God's laws will be adhered to without exception, because we will have perfect obedience without the lusts of the flesh that distract us here on earth.

I commend you all to HIS grace.
George

[MaxPC]

I like the way you are able to support your teaching with relevant Scripture verses, GC.

[Soloist]

So if I am following you correctly, you say the punishment for not following a Sabbath is you lose a wonderful day of rest and it doesn't matter the day you do it on even though the commandment states it is the 7th day?