What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

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ken_sylvania
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by ken_sylvania »

Josh wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
Josh wrote:So, gcdonner, do we need to instruct new converts to get circumcised or not?
Shall we instruct new converts to become adulterers so that they demonstrate that they are not "under the law"?
You are confounding the word of God.
No. And that is a ridiculous assertion.

Not keeping the Sabbath and committing adultery are not equal things.
So Josh, where does Jesus ever say that adultery is sin?
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Josh
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Josh »

“You have heard that it was said, ‘ Do not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

It was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a legal document.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
I think Jesus makes it clear here adultery is bad. However, Jesus agenda was not to give lists of sins to avoid, and then parameters for how close we can get to those sins without sinning. Instead he told us to stay far away.

Except with Sabbath-keeping. He announced himself Lord of the Sabbath and ignored the rules around not working, including healing people.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by ken_sylvania »

Josh wrote:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘ Do not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

It was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a legal document.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
I think Jesus makes it clear here adultery is bad. However, Jesus agenda was not to give lists of sins to avoid, and then parameters for how close we can get to those sins without sinning. Instead he told us to stay far away.

Except with Sabbath-keeping. He announced himself Lord of the Sabbath and ignored the rules around not working, including healing people.
He certainly did ignore the rules that had been developed contrary to the purpose of the Sabbath, but at the same time he reinforced the purpose and true practice of the Sabbath.
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gcdonner
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
Josh wrote:So, gcdonner, do we need to instruct new converts to get circumcised or not?
Shall we instruct new converts to become adulterers so that they demonstrate that they are not "under the law"?
You are confounding the word of God.
No. And that is a ridiculous assertion.

Not keeping the Sabbath and committing adultery are not equal things.
We are not talking "equal" we are talking the 10 commandments and since when do you have the authority to declare one above the other? Your assertions are not rational at all. You want to pick and choose what you can and don't have to obey. It doesn't work that way my friend. I suggest you ask the Author about these things.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Josh »

So let's get this straight.

Tomorrow evening at dusk if I am working on my car, that's equivalent to me going and having an illicit affair with my friend's wife.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:So, why is circumcision negated but not Sabbath-keeping?

And how should we keep the Sabbath anyway? And which Sabbaths?
We are talking about the 10 commandments, you are the one straying from there. Still picking and choosing...
Exo 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy…
Mk 2:27-28; Matt 12:1-8; Lk 6:1-5; Jn 5:10; Heb 4:1-11
When and where did Jesus abrogate the Sabbath day? Why do you "keep" Sundays? There is NO admonition in the NT to do so. What "law" compels you to keep any day separate?
Where do you get the idea that Sabbath was not observed since creation? That is the premise of it's original institution in relation to the children of Israel, it was not something new at all, just "canonized", if you will.
Exo_31:17  It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Have you been grafted in or are you still a wild olive branch?

Do you forget that Jesus said, "The sabbath was made for man..."? It is a gift from God and you are the one who is missing something if you don't avail yourself of a sabbath.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Josh »

My personal practice is to refrain from work or profit making activity on Sundays and to avoid doing things to make other people work on Sundays.

I feel no conviction to change my observation to Friday night through Saturday afternoon. I don't look down on those who do.

I also feel this is not a commandment in New Testament scripture. Whereas I feel not murdering, not committing adultery, absolutely are.

None of Paul's lists of sins include "Sabbath-breakers".
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:So let's get this straight.

Tomorrow evening at dusk if I am working on my car, that's equivalent to me going and having an illicit affair with my friend's wife.
No, that is what you have been saying all along, that we are no longer under the law. You seem to think you can pick and choose. You can't have it both ways. Either the 10 commandments still define sin or they don't.
Gal 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 
Gal 5:14  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 
Why do you desire to excuse yourself from obedience? If the law has been written in your heart then you are not "under" it, but by walking in the Spirit, fulfill it, even as Christ did.
Compare the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit:
Gal 5:18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 
Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 
Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 
Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 
Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 
How many items of the 10 commandments do you find listed below? Why would Paul even list these things if Timothy didn't have to worry about them, or the Gentiles to whom he ministered?
2Ti 3:2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 
2Ti 3:3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 
2Ti 3:4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 
2Ti 3:5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:My personal practice is to refrain from work or profit making activity on Sundays and to avoid doing things to make other people work on Sundays.

I feel no conviction to change my observation to Friday night through Saturday afternoon. I don't look down on those who do.

I also feel this is not a commandment in New Testament scripture. Whereas I feel not murdering, not committing adultery, absolutely are.

None of Paul's lists of sins include "Sabbath-breakers".
You are still picking and choosing...
Can't you answer my questions to you?
Jesus declared that he was Lord of the sabbath, but nowhere did he declare that he was Lord of Sunday...
I am waiting for some scriptural backing for all your assertions. You have NONE and therefore have raised a strawman to divert the conversation.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Rom 13:8  Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 
Rom 13:9  For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 
Rom 13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law
The NT is not a comprehensive listing of all the sayings of either Jesus or the Apostles and the author's didn't quote whole passages, but used brevity for the sake of readability, knowing the verbal instructions already given and the common practices of the church already established.
Jas 2:8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 
Jas 2:9  But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 
Jas 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 
Jas 2:11  For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 
Jas 2:12  So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 
Last edited by gcdonner on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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