What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

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Josh
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Josh »

I explained earlier how God gave commandments to Noah which I think are binding on all people, gcdonner.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by MaxPC »

gcdonner wrote:
Soloist wrote:Now I think I understand where you are coming from.

If I might say, maybe we as Christians come across with our convictions too strong sometimes saying that someone who does things differently are not following God.
For instance, I could say anyone who uses anything from those two cell lines(vaccines) isn't following God but that would be incorrect unless that person was defying his conviction from the Holy Spirit. Likewise with eating idol meat or worship days.
For you personally, Saturday is the day you are convicted to worship God and take your day of rest. For me, I have no conviction either way and would be content on either day. I didn't say that I am or do, did I?

I do completely agree that God has given us a gift, a day of rest and we should take one.
I think that sometimes, people have trouble with the explanations. I know I do when I'm tired or the eyes aren't cooperating with the small phone screen. :lol:
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

I did not initiate this discussion of Sabbath, but it was used to try and disprove the use of the 10 commandments under the NC, to which I was responding, using the illustration supplied. Here is my full belief and practice of the Sabbath, in a tract that I wrote many years ago now. Enjoy and be blessed!

To Rest or not to Rest?

Elohim rested from His work of creation on the Seventh Day, according to Genesis 2. Not only did He rest on this day, but also He put a blessing on it and sanctified it. However, He did not, so far as we know, make any commandment regarding an observation of it for man.

It is not until some 1500 years later, when YHWH calls out a people and sanctifies them for Himself, that He commanded them to rest from gathering food after 6 days of work. On the Seventh Day, He did not provide any food to be gathered, even though some people still went looking, displaying their lack of trust in and obedience to God.

In the giving of the Law (Ex. 20), YHWH commanded the observing of the Sabbath with the explanation of identifying their practice with the practice of God in creation, and as a reminder of their deliverance from bondage in Egypt, where there was no “rest”. However, the seventh day was not the only day set apart as a Sabbath, but there were many other days as well, and a Sabbath Year also!

In Exodus 31, we find that the Sabbath was given to the Children of Israel as a sign between YHWH and His people so that they would remember that He had set them apart from other peoples of the earth. The penalty for violation of the Sabbath observances was DEATH!

There was a limitation put on the covenant of the Sabbath, which was symbolic of the Law, and the temporal “rest” of the people of Israel. In Exodus 31:13-17, where we find this covenant of the Sabbath established as a sign, YHWH commanded that Israel was to “keep” the Sabbath and to “observe” the Sabbath throughout their generations for a “perpetual” covenant. The word translated as “perpetual” is olam in the Hebrew, which literally means “age-lasting”. The Sabbath was only to be “kept” and “observed” throughout the age of the Law, of which it was a sign. The Sabbath was the SIGN of the first covenant of the Law, even though it was actually initiated before the giving of the Law, wherein it became “instituted”.

Let’s remember here, that “the Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ” (Jn. 1:17) and "…the
law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did…" (Heb. 7:19)

Generally speaking the Children of Israel kept most of the Sabbaths. However there is one ordinance which they never kept according to the Biblical record, which I believe is significant for those of us who are in Christ.

Just as Moses began to proclaim the 7th day Sabbath even before the giving of the Decalogue on Mt. Sinai (the 1st Covenant), so Jesus began to proclaim “Liberty”, the freedom of Jubilee even before He confirmed the New Covenant of Grace (the 2nd Covenant). Christ began His ministry in Nazareth by proclaiming His mission of fulfilling Is. 61:1,2, which had its origins in the establishment of the Jubilee in Lev. 25, where YHWH says, “Ye shall hallow the 50th year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a Jubile unto you...” (vs. 10). It is neither the 7th day of the week nor the 7th year, but on the Day of Atonement, which is now genuinely a perpetual day - for “Today is the Day of Salvation” (Atonement, Deliverance, Liberty, Jubilee!). While the Day of Atonement is a Sabbath, it is not relegated to a particular day of the week, just as the original Day was appointed to be the 10th of the 7th month, irrespective of the day of the week! I find it no coincidence that the birth of the Church took place on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after Passover. The celebration of the writing of the Law on tables of stone becomes the celebration of the writing of God's love in the hearts of men!

We are at “rest” in Christ because He has atoned for our sins, because He has shed His blood, because He has set the captive free, because He rose as the Sabbath was coming to an end, because He is Lord of the Sabbath, because the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath, because Jubilee goes beyond the Sabbath as the manifestation of God’s Grace to set men free, because Jubilee lasts throughout the year, because it removes us from bond-slavery which Sabbath alone could not do, because Jubilee re-establishes us to our rightful place of inheritance, having been redeemed by our “kinsman”, so we are no longer servants but we are now Sons.

Is Jubilee the sign of the New Covenant, bought and paid for, atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ, the Blood of the Covenant?

While the Jubilee may appear to be a “sign” of the New Covenant, and that we have entered the “rest” of YHWH by ceasing from our own works for salvation (Heb. 4:10), there yet remains a natural blessing of physical rest as part of Creation. Like the institution of Marriage that God created for man’s benefit (“it is not good that man should be alone”, Gen. 2:18), it is not imperative for all men to be married, in spite of the blessing intended. So in like manner did Jesus say that, “the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.” (Mk. 2:27), indicating that it was a blessing which God gave for our benefit, not for our bondage. Its symbolism and blessing was missed by most of the Old Covenant people and still is by those who would be under the Law. An entire volume of the Talmud was written to define and explain the limitations set up in order to protect the “sacredness” of the day as well as the comfort and well being of the individual. If we are to “observe” the Sabbath, let us do it according to the Law.

The Apostle Paul recognized the blessing of Sabbath, but noted that it was not intended to be a legalistic “observation”, which is why he said, ”Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?...One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth [observes] the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth no the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.” (Rms. 14:4-6) Some feel obliged to “observe” the 7th day Sabbath, even with all of its specific Old Covenant shadows; others regard Sunday as a day of Rest and worship; others yet hold that every day is “set apart” (sanctified/hallowed) unto God.

Can we see that YHWH has provided a day of rest from physical labors as a blessing for men that those outside of Christ (‘in the world”) neither appreciate nor practice in their pursuit of material possessions? While there is no longer a legislated punishment for “violating” the Sabbath, there is a physical toll to be paid for not giving the body its needed rest, which has been medically proven to be necessary, one day in seven.

Jesus paid the penalty so that we could receive the blessing, "...blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath: Which [were] a shadow of things to come; but the body [substance, reality] is of Christ. “ (Col. 2:14-17) Jesus is our rest!

The question is not, “Which day shall we observe?” But, “Will you receive a God-given blessing?” It matters not so much which day and it is not a sin if you take no day, but it is to our benefit to receive a day, without guilt of condemnation, compulsion, or accusation of “laziness”.

“Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind”...Let every man be BLESSED.

Mat 11:28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Heb 4:9. There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10. For the one who enters God's rest has himself rested[ceased] from his own works, just as God did from his.

Blessings,
George Donner, aka, gcdonner
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Josh wrote:I explained earlier how God gave commandments to Noah which I think are binding on all people, gcdonner.
But we aren't "all people" are we? Aren't we God's people? We live by a different standard, don't we? Do you? If you don't, why bother to go to any church at all? Why even bother having this discussion?
We are interacting as Christians are we not? I never implied that the "world" would understand Sabbath, but even they will benefit from it, just like following any of God's other laws, like the law of gravity for instance.

But speaking of God's law being written in the hearts of Gentiles when they are converted, Paul had this to say:
Rom 2:14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness...
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by Soloist »

gcdonner wrote: I didn't say that I am or do, did I?
I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. It seemed that from your defense of it that you did.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by RZehr »

Anabapticostalbrew?
;)
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

RZehr wrote:Anabapticostalbrew?
;)
All of the above and more... Wherever God leads me. But I doubt that the Jews would want me, any more than you guys do.
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by gcdonner »

Soloist wrote:
gcdonner wrote: I didn't say that I am or do, did I?
I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. It seemed that from your defense of it that you did.
No problem. We cannot dismiss the Sabbath as readily as many Christians tend to do. It is part of creation, as much as you yourself are. If God created it for us, who are we to fight against it?
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Re: What I like and not like within christian faith and life (so far)

Post by plain »

Bootstrap wrote:
plain wrote:What I like ....
-Contract ethics (not saying other ethics, eg. Natural law, are wrong).
This seems to refer to Romans 1? Can you tell me more about contract ethics?
That is right is what two parts has made a contract about. Eg. the testament between Jesus and the church.
Bootstrap wrote:
plain wrote:What I do not like ...
-Focus on sin control, instead of focus on good deeds.
Yes. If you put your energy into loving and serving others, it's surprising how much easier the fight against sin becomes.
Yes. Then you don't have time to do much sin, and don't have time think about it.
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