The Ministry of the Holy Spirit

[Hats Off]

If one wants Pentecostal doctrines, speaking in tongues, etc., but wants a more conservative lifestyle, modest dress, not attending movies, and so on, one would be better off with Oneness Pentecostal circles, whose members number in the millions and who have very solid outreach and evangelism to the world.

Thank you bit we are not "Oneness" in doctrine so that is a huge disagreement with us- Oasis doesn't appear worldly, they do cover, and are Scripturally sound in the Trinity, and Scripturally sound in Gifts of the Spirit, however hubby is not drawn to get back into a Church that promotes Spiritual gifts even though he believes in them but I really appreciated both services we attended. We are vehemently opposed to denying gifts, as Scripture teaches them, and teaches against forbidding them

Curious - 'Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.' - 1 Cor 14:1

Denying and forbidding but what about 'eagerly desiring'. Is this any less of an instruction than, say, wearing a head covering ? It would seem to me that the impact of having supernatural spiritual gifts operating would have more impact than whether or not a woman wears a head covering.

My guess is that most Anabaptist groups do not encourage and provide opportunity for spiritual gifts to operate in their churches due to the mis-use of and phony displays of some charismatics that are not of the Holy Spirit. Seems when the supernatural is involved, the 'safe way' is to go with things that are not of a supernatural nature.

Yes ? No ?

No - we allow and expect our church services to be Holy Spirit led. Our ministers make minimal use of notes to allow the Holy Spirit more room in their preaching. We regularly see ministers who obviously are spirit led. One younger minister, when some one commented on his message said "thank God for the Holy Spirit. In other words, without the leading of the Spirit, there would have been no message.

[Sudsy]

Thank you bit we are not "Oneness" in doctrine so that is a huge disagreement with us- Oasis doesn't appear worldly, they do cover, and are Scripturally sound in the Trinity, and Scripturally sound in Gifts of the Spirit, however hubby is not drawn to get back into a Church that promotes Spiritual gifts even though he believes in them but I really appreciated both services we attended. We are vehemently opposed to denying gifts, as Scripture teaches them, and teaches against forbidding them

Curious - 'Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.' - 1 Cor 14:1

Denying and forbidding but what about 'eagerly desiring'. Is this any less of an instruction than, say, wearing a head covering ? It would seem to me that the impact of having supernatural spiritual gifts operating would have more impact than whether or not a woman wears a head covering.

My guess is that most Anabaptist groups do not encourage and provide opportunity for spiritual gifts to operate in their churches due to the mis-use of and phony displays of some charismatics that are not of the Holy Spirit. Seems when the supernatural is involved, the 'safe way' is to go with things that are not of a supernatural nature.

Yes ? No ?

No - we allow and expect our church services to be Holy Spirit led. Our ministers make minimal use of notes to allow the Holy Spirit more room in their preaching. We regularly see ministers who obviously are spirit led. One younger minister, when some one commented on his message said "thank God for the Holy Spirit. In other words, without the leading of the Spirit, there would have been no message.

So, do you encourage your church to seek after or eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit that would include gifts such as speaking in an unknown tongue and/or the gift of interpretation of an unknown tongue ? Do you follow the instructions of how certain gifts are to be used in a church service as found in 1 Cor. 14 ? Is there an allowance for these gifts to be used in your meetings beyond a single person teaching by the Holy Spirit ? Seems to me Anabaptists trim down 1 Cor 14 to mainly be the 34th and 35th verses to be followed. When was the last time someone(s) spoke in an unknown tongue in any Anabaptist church you attended followed by an interpretation ?

Seems to me most Anabaptists are Cessationists in practise even if they gift lip service to being Continuationists. I have yet to hear the speaking of an unknown tongue followed by an interpretation in our Mennonite Brethren church even though our teaching pastor and his wife have the gift of speaking in an unknown tongue.

And, by the way, imo, many Continuationists do not follow the instructions given in 1 Cor 14 regarding the order of worship that is outlined here.

According to verses 22 and 26, it would seem that allowing for the supernatural gifts of the Spirit to operate in a gathering of believers through various people is important not only in the 'building up' or strengthening of believers but as a means God uses to speak to any unbeliever present.

More thoughts ?

[Hats Off]

We look to the Holy Spirit for guidance and help. We do not speak in tongues. And the rest of your post I don't understand - there are words I don't have time to look and doubt that they would be profitable for me.

[Sudsy]

We look to the Holy Spirit for guidance and help. We do not speak in tongues. And the rest of your post I don't understand - there are words I don't have time to look and doubt that they would be profitable for me.

So, I guess I'm speaking in an unknown tongue.

[Valerie]

We look to the Holy Spirit for guidance and help. We do not speak in tongues. And the rest of your post I don't understand - there are words I don't have time to look and doubt that they would be profitable for me.

So, I guess I'm speaking in an unknown tongue.

Perhaps you would do well to explain those terms that aren't found in Scripture but describe the two camps-
I remember at our Church, during a Q & A, someone asked our Pastor about 'the five fold ministry'.
I was familiar with the term & what it meant, because of where I had been taught-
But Pastor Begg was not familiar with the term so he didn't understand the question-

So in different denominations/circles or what have you- there have been words used for description to distinguish differences of belief/interpretation/doctrine but those terms aren't Scriptural 'words' so they can throw people off-
Especially say in a denomination like Hats Off where they pretty much stick with their own denomination and see no need to explore what else is out there, via radio, t.v., publications or internet outside their own denomination so there is a lack of exposure to these things.

Are they beneficial to know? I think it can help because we can have wrong assumptions- some of these things help people gain more understanding-of other Christians

[ken_sylvania]

So, do you encourage your church to seek after or eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit that would include gifts such as speaking in an unknown tongue and/or the gift of interpretation of an unknown tongue ? Do you follow the instructions of how certain gifts are to be used in a church service as found in 1 Cor. 14 ? Is there an allowance for these gifts to be used in your meetings beyond a single person teaching by the Holy Spirit ? Seems to me Anabaptists trim down 1 Cor 14 to mainly be the 34th and 35th verses to be followed. When was the last time someone(s) spoke in an unknown tongue in any Anabaptist church you attended followed by an interpretation ?

A couple of months ago at a baptismal service. Two brethren stood in the pulpit, one would say a phrase in an unknown tongue, then the other would interpret. For about 45 minutes.
This also happens regularly in some of our churches in Africa.

[Hats Off]

So, do you encourage your church to seek after or eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit that would include gifts such as speaking in an unknown tongue and/or the gift of interpretation of an unknown tongue ? Do you follow the instructions of how certain gifts are to be used in a church service as found in 1 Cor. 14 ? Is there an allowance for these gifts to be used in your meetings beyond a single person teaching by the Holy Spirit ? Seems to me Anabaptists trim down 1 Cor 14 to mainly be the 34th and 35th verses to be followed. When was the last time someone(s) spoke in an unknown tongue in any Anabaptist church you attended followed by an interpretation ?

A couple of months ago at a baptismal service. Two brethren stood in the pulpit, one would say a phrase in an unknown tongue, then the other would interpret. For about 45 minutes.
This also happens regularly in some of our churches in Africa.

In some of our services, the interpreter does his work simultaneously.

[ohio jones]

When was the last time someone(s) spoke in an unknown tongue in any Anabaptist church you attended followed by an interpretation?

We often hear a passage read from the KJV, followed by the interpretation from ESV or NLT.

[Sudsy]

We look to the Holy Spirit for guidance and help. We do not speak in tongues. And the rest of your post I don't understand - there are words I don't have time to look and doubt that they would be profitable for me.

So, I guess I'm speaking in an unknown tongue.

Perhaps you would do well to explain those terms that aren't found in Scripture but describe the two camps-
I remember at our Church, during a Q & A, someone asked our Pastor about 'the five fold ministry'.
I was familiar with the term & what it meant, because of where I had been taught-
But Pastor Begg was not familiar with the term so he didn't understand the question-

So in different denominations/circles or what have you- there have been words used for description to distinguish differences of belief/interpretation/doctrine but those terms aren't Scriptural 'words' so they can throw people off-
Especially say in a denomination like Hats Off where they pretty much stick with their own denomination and see no need to explore what else is out there, via radio, t.v., publications or internet outside their own denomination so there is a lack of exposure to these things.

Are they beneficial to know? I think it can help because we can have wrong assumptions- some of these things help people gain more understanding-of other Christians

Good point Valerie. If the main terms were Cessationists and Continuationists I should have explained.

Continuationism is the belief, which some Christians hold to, (including some if not all Anabaptists) is that the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit taught in the Bible (i.e. prophecy, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healings, and miracles) have not ceased and are available for the believer today. Cessationism (the opposite) teaches that supernatural gifts have ceased either when the canon of Scripture was completed or when the apostles died. A matter of whether certain miraculous gifts that were active at one time are still active today.

I will try to keep this in mind in future posts.

[Sudsy]

A couple of months ago at a baptismal service. Two brethren stood in the pulpit, one would say a phrase in an unknown tongue, then the other would interpret. For about 45 minutes.
This also happens regularly in some of our churches in Africa.

Are you speaking of languages known by some in this world that need interpretation phrase by phrase so they can be understood by those who don't speak that language ? If so, this doesn't seem to be the tongues said to be unknown in 1 Cor 14. If not, I find this quite interesting as I have never heard of this happening in a phrase by phrase way.

Unknown tongues are generally understood as 'heavenly utterances' not spoken anywhere on earth although I have heard of languages that are spoken on earth and understood by someone(s) in the congregation and are interpreted into the common language of the congregation.

I was raised in a church who often spoke in unknown tongues (no one hearing understood that tongue) and I am not convinced all of this was Holy Spirit directed. Especially when someone would follow up their own unknown tongues speaking with the basic same interpretation (message from God) every time. I think this is where the spiritual gift of discernment is needed.

Basically, outloud unknown tongues speaking in a church without interpretation of those tongues, I believe, Paul is saying they don't provide value for the congregation. In my background this was not adhered to by many.