Tattoos and Couches - What Old Testament Laws are Binding?

[Bootstrap]

This is a discussion thread, not a debate thread. I don't have to convince you, you don't have to convince me, we can each have different points of view. Let's see if we can discuss this question respectfully.

I was hoping you could tie together tattoos and not letting women sit on the couch.

You quoted one verse from Leviticus.

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:28

Here's another one:

And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Leviticus 15:19-21

Are both of these verses from Leviticus binding for modern Christians? Is one binding but not the other? How do you decide?

In my house, men and women both sit on the furniture at any time of month and we ignore this verse entirely. How do you approach this?

When do we read a verse from the Old Testament and say that is still binding today? When do we say that it was done away with in the New Covenant?

[karpos]

Are both of these verses from Leviticus binding for modern Christians? Is one binding but not the other? How do you decide?

In my house, men and women both sit on the furniture at any time of month and we ignore this verse entirely. How do you approach this?

You owe me a new monitor. I laughed so hard I spewed all over the place.

If you wish to play that game, since loving your neighbor is in leviticus, you can make the argument that if women are allowed to sit on the couch all the time, you do not have to love your neighbor.

I think your argument qualifies as a syllogistic fallacy.

If feeding a poor person is loving your neighbor and loving your neighbor is old testament and therefore not binding then I do not have to help feed the poor. This is the type of illogical argument you are making.

[Bootstrap]

Are both of these verses from Leviticus binding for modern Christians? Is one binding but not the other? How do you decide?

In my house, men and women both sit on the furniture at any time of month and we ignore this verse entirely. How do you approach this?

You owe me a new monitor. I laughed so hard I spewed all over the place.

If you wish to play that game, since loving your neighbor is in leviticus, you can make the argument that if women are allowed to sit on the couch all the time, you do not have to love your neighbor.

I don't think I'm playing a game here. Add that to the list. We now have three verses to consider, we can add to that list as we go. What verses do we consider binding? Why?

I think your argument qualifies as a syllogistic fallacy.

If feeding a poor person is loving your neighbor and loving your neighbor is old testament and therefore not binding then I do not have to help feed the poor. This is the type of illogical argument you are making.

To be blunt, I don't think you understand logical fallacies very well. You don't have to, it's not necessary, but please don't play this game. You don't know this well enough to teach it, and it just turns a friendly discussion into something uglier and distracts from whatever subject we are actually trying to discuss. Back to the subject ...

We have three verses from the Old Testament. Most of us wouldn't apply all of them today. Most of us probably do believe we should love our neighbor but don't worry too much if our neighbor sits on our furniture. Why? How do we decide which verses to treat as commandments that are binding today?

[karpos]

To be blunt, I don't think you understand logical fallacies very well.

when i started computer programming (a LONG time ago), i tried using boolean logic to do complicated things and it didnt work very well. I understand logical fallacies quite well.

[karpos]

To be blunt, I don't think you understand logical fallacies very well.

when i started computer programming (a LONG time ago), i tried using boolean logic to do complicated things and it didnt work very well. I understand logical fallacies quite well.

[karpos]

To be blunt, I don't think you understand logical fallacies very well.

when i started computer programming (a LONG time ago), i tried using boolean logic to do complicated things and it didnt work very well. I understand logical fallacies quite well.

[Bootstrap]

We have three verses from the Old Testament. Most of us wouldn't apply all of them today. Most of us probably do believe we should love our neighbor but don't worry too much if our neighbor sits on our furniture. Why? How do we decide which verses to treat as commandments that are binding today?

I wonder if we can get opinions from 2-3 other people on this question who haven't weighed in. I'm going to wait a day before responding in this thread, hoping that some other people do.

[Reflecting]

I’m not sure how they dealt with their issues back then, but today there is not uncontainted body fluid (short of unusual circumstances) left behind. (I do think a large part of OT law was for sanitation purposes. Food laws and otherwise including the example cited.)

Love your neighbor was not only mentioned in the NT, it has been strengthened.

I don’t know if tattoos/ cuttings/ markings are mentioned in the NT per se, but
- OT says “I am the Lord.” This was the context or reason given. God is still our Creator and Lord today.
-NT does teach we are not to have excessive outward adorning. To etch something into to body God created for you zooms way beyond adorning it.

MHO

[karpos]

I don’t know if tattoos/ cuttings/ markings are mentioned in the NT per se, but
- OT says “I am the Lord.” This was the context or reason given. God is still our Creator and Lord today.
-NT does teach we are not to have excessive outward adorning. To etch something into to body God created for you zooms way beyond adorning it.

MHO

marks on the head and hand are mentioned in revelation 13.

[lesterb]

I don't feel bound by any of the OT laws. But many of their principles are carried forward into the New Testament. But we need to realize that there were various classes of laws. Since Israel was a nation, they had to have civil laws. How were they handle a lawbreaker, a rapist, or a murderer. Etc.

That class of laws we don't really need to pay a lot of attention to.

Then there were the health and safety laws. The laws of uncleaness were part of that, though some had some spiritual significance as well.

Then there were ceremonial laws, like the laws of sacrifice and the festivals.

All three of those categories are pretty well redundant.

The other category is what is often called the moral law. I went through the whole books of the law one time and categorized all the laws in them. Took a good part of a week. But it was very insightful. I feel that the moral part of the law is where God revealed his feelings about sin. This part of the OT is worthwhile studying, just to get some insight into God's thinking about things. But again, I don't go there and make them part of my daily life, because I believe that the NT lists what we need.

The Sermon on the Mount shows Jesus going back to the moral law and strengthening it. God expects better things of us than he expected of the OT believers, because we have the Spirit and the grace that comes with the Spirit.

I think that if one of our members went out and got a tattoo, we'd probably excommunicate him. If a convert came into the church with tattoos, we'd probably tell him to wear a long sleeved shirt. Why? Because tattoos are pretty obviously from the world and typify the sinful doings of people. I don't need to go to the OT for that. The NT tells us to avoid all appearance of evil, and I'd place tattoos right there. If you got them and didn't know better, fine. If you did know better and now wish you wouldn't have gotten them, fine. But I have little time for the kind of Biblical games that are showing up on MennoNet the last while. Life is serious, because we are living out our apprenticeship for eternity.