Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)

[Josh]

Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.

I randomly ran across this verse, and it intrigued (and confused me). What's going on here?

[lesterb]

Solomon viewed kingship as being the earthly parallel of being God. That comes through more in Ecclesiastes than it does in Proverbs. But it does slip into Proverbs as well.

[Josh]

Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".

By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.

[lesterb]

Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".

By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.

Is Solomon thinking of this in the same way as we think of being directed by the Spirit? There is a sense in which prophetic teaching could be described as a godly form of divination.

Also what about Urrim and Thummin? (not sure if that is spelled right)

[MaxPC]

Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".

By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.

Is Solomon thinking of this in the same way as we think of being directed by the Spirit? There is a sense in which prophetic teaching could be described as a godly form of divination.

Also what about Urrim and Thummin? (not sure if that is spelled right)

I agree with Lester. I'll add that the Douay-Rheims drew on some vocabulary that was archaic as well as had multiple definitions. The D-R was a translation of a Latin translation (Vulgate) that drew from Hebrew and Greek sources. The Challoner revision of the D-R improved readability yet it still has its archaic language issues however - which is why most Catholic dioceses depend on the New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) or the Revised Standard Version-CE (RSV-CE).

The RSV-CE reads: Inspired decisions are on the lips of a king;
his mouth does not sin in judgment.

The NABRE reads: **An oracle is upon the king’s lips,
no judgment of his mouth is false.
**Footnotes:
16:10 Six sayings on the king and his divine authority begin here, following the series of sayings about the Lord’s governance in 15:33–16:9, in which “Lord” was mentioned nine times.

Of course there are also those Bible verses that use sarcasm

[temporal1]

i do not understand the intent of these words to suggest divination comes from the (worldly) king, just the opposite, as is reflected in the overall passage.

this doesn’t suggest kings can’t fail, or there are no bad kings.

Proverbs 16:10 (Douay-Rheims) wrote:
Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.

Verse 9 is a long time fav of mine:

.. 9 A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

10 A divine verdict is on the lips of a king; his mouth should not betray justice.

11 Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are His concern.…

i do not read sarcasm in this. it paints a picture of beautiful reality.

there were years in my life when i had to make so many decisions that affected others, on a daily basis. i lacked confidence. i held onto Verse 9, praying daily, to be led, counting on God to determine my steps. a lot of pressure.

[MaxPC]

i do not understand the intent of these words to suggest divination comes from the (worldly) king, just the opposite, as is reflected in the overall passage.

this doesn’t suggest kings can’t fail, or there are no bad kings.

Proverbs 16:10 (Douay-Rheims) wrote:
Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.

Verse 9 is a long time fav of mine:

.. 9 A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

10 A divine verdict is on the lips of a king; his mouth should not betray justice.

11 Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are His concern.…

i do not read sarcasm in this. it paints a picture of beautiful reality.

there were years in my life when i had to make so many decisions that affected others, on a daily basis. i lacked confidence. i held onto Verse 9, praying daily, to be led, counting on God to determine my steps. a lot of pressure.

I should have been more specific. I didn't say this verse was an example of Biblical sarcasm. I was thinking about other places in the Bible in which sarcasm is used and it may be misunderstood without reading it within proper context.

[Bootstrap]

You are unwilling to believe that there are people who think that the President should be subject to the rule of law. You feel free to project feelings and thoughts onto me that are not what I am saying or what I think or feel.

How are you not feeling free to "project feelings and thoughts onto" Robert in the first sentence?

Thanks, Gary, I was wrong to do that. Robert, I apologize for that.