I randomly ran across this verse, and it intrigued (and confused me). What's going on here?Proverbs 16:10 (Douay-Rheims) wrote:Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.
Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
- Josh
- Posts: 24202
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
0 x
-
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
- Location: Alberta
- Affiliation: Western Fellowship
- Contact:
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
Solomon viewed kingship as being the earthly parallel of being God. That comes through more in Ecclesiastes than it does in Proverbs. But it does slip into Proverbs as well.
0 x
- Josh
- Posts: 24202
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".
By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.
By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.
0 x
-
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
- Location: Alberta
- Affiliation: Western Fellowship
- Contact:
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
Is Solomon thinking of this in the same way as we think of being directed by the Spirit? There is a sense in which prophetic teaching could be described as a godly form of divination.Josh wrote:Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".
By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.
Also what about Urrim and Thummin? (not sure if that is spelled right)
0 x
-
- Posts: 9120
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
- Location: Former full time RVers
- Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
- Contact:
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
I agree with Lester. I'll add that the Douay-Rheims drew on some vocabulary that was archaic as well as had multiple definitions. The D-R was a translation of a Latin translation (Vulgate) that drew from Hebrew and Greek sources. The Challoner revision of the D-R improved readability yet it still has its archaic language issues however - which is why most Catholic dioceses depend on the New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) or the Revised Standard Version-CE (RSV-CE).lesterb wrote:Is Solomon thinking of this in the same way as we think of being directed by the Spirit? There is a sense in which prophetic teaching could be described as a godly form of divination.Josh wrote:Particularly of interest to me is that the verse seems to have an assumption that divination equals "right judgment".
By the time we get to the New Testament, divination seems to no longer be acceptable. In the apocryphal books is still is, and it shows up in Ecclesiastes as you pointed out as well.
Also what about Urrim and Thummin? (not sure if that is spelled right)
The RSV-CE reads: Inspired decisions are on the lips of a king;
his mouth does not sin in judgment.
The NABRE reads: **An oracle is upon the king’s lips,
no judgment of his mouth is false.
**Footnotes:
16:10 Six sayings on the king and his divine authority begin here, following the series of sayings about the Lord’s governance in 15:33–16:9, in which “Lord” was mentioned nine times.
Of course there are also those Bible verses that use sarcasm
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
-
- Posts: 16441
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
- Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
- Affiliation: Christian other
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
i do not understand the intent of these words to suggest divination comes from the (worldly) king, just the opposite, as is reflected in the overall passage.
this doesn’t suggest kings can’t fail, or there are no bad kings.
there were years in my life when i had to make so many decisions that affected others, on a daily basis. i lacked confidence. i held onto Verse 9, praying daily, to be led, counting on God to determine my steps. a lot of pressure.
this doesn’t suggest kings can’t fail, or there are no bad kings.
Verse 9 is a long time fav of mine:Proverbs 16:10 (Douay-Rheims) wrote:
Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.
i do not read sarcasm in this. it paints a picture of beautiful reality... 9 A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
10 A divine verdict is on the lips of a king; his mouth should not betray justice.
11 Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are His concern.…
there were years in my life when i had to make so many decisions that affected others, on a daily basis. i lacked confidence. i held onto Verse 9, praying daily, to be led, counting on God to determine my steps. a lot of pressure.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
-
- Posts: 9120
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
- Location: Former full time RVers
- Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
- Contact:
Re: Proverbs 16:10 (D-R translation)
I should have been more specific. I didn't say this verse was an example of Biblical sarcasm. I was thinking about other places in the Bible in which sarcasm is used and it may be misunderstood without reading it within proper context.temporal1 wrote:i do not understand the intent of these words to suggest divination comes from the (worldly) king, just the opposite, as is reflected in the overall passage.
this doesn’t suggest kings can’t fail, or there are no bad kings.Verse 9 is a long time fav of mine:Proverbs 16:10 (Douay-Rheims) wrote:
Divination is in the lips of the king, his mouth shall not err in judgment.i do not read sarcasm in this. it paints a picture of beautiful reality... 9 A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
10 A divine verdict is on the lips of a king; his mouth should not betray justice.
11 Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are His concern.…
there were years in my life when i had to make so many decisions that affected others, on a daily basis. i lacked confidence. i held onto Verse 9, praying daily, to be led, counting on God to determine my steps. a lot of pressure.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Credible News Sources
Thanks, Gary, I was wrong to do that. Robert, I apologize for that.GaryK wrote:How are you not feeling free to "project feelings and thoughts onto" Robert in the first sentence?Bootstrap wrote:You are unwilling to believe that there are people who think that the President should be subject to the rule of law. You feel free to project feelings and thoughts onto me that are not what I am saying or what I think or feel.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?