Christians and tattoos

[Bootstrap]

Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands... hummm....sounds like a tattoo to me.

Sounds more like a reference to what happened a few days after Palm Sunday.

Excellent point and fits the narrative perfectly as I will show later this eve Lord willing!

Also this:

This one will say, “I am the LORD’s,”
another will be called by the name of Jacob,
yet another will write on the hand, “The LORD’s,”
and adopt the name of Israel.

There is something about writing names on hands that shows up in at least a handful of places in the Bible.

To me, a tattoo like some of the ones I showed earlier feels analogous to this.

I'm surprised that no one has used Deut 6:8 as justification for tattoos...

Well, this kind of tattoo is analogous to Deuteronomy 6:8, too.

You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

If wearing a visible sign as a witness is wrong, then plain Mennos and Amish are on the wrong track. I would be careful not to be too quick to judge good Christians who are different because of externals.

[Biblical Anabaptist]

I think we can get off track by parsing Scripture, especially the NT, for prohibitions or the lack thereof to ascertain what we should or should not allow or practice. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think the NT speaks specifically to bestiality. Does that mean that it is OK for Christians to engage in such behavior? I am aware of nowhere in the NT that we are told that we should wear sex distinctive clothing other than perhaps 1Cor. 11 which addresses sex distinctive hairstyles and headdress. Does that mean we are OK with cross-dressing?

I believe that while we are not under OT law, we can see in the OT how God feels about certain issues. Also, I like to look at the origin of things to determine the advisability of following a practice. Do a google search and research the origin of tattoos. Apparently, in the very beginning, they had a legitimate purpose in the military. Later it was a symbol of individuality and rebellion. Until recently, tattoos were mostly worn by marines and Harley riders. While you are doing your research, check the origin of men shaving their heads as is the style today and is creeping into Christian circles.

All practices have their origin either from God or Satan and we do well to determine which camp these practices are coming from. There are also some "good" practices being promoted in the churches that have humanistic origins.

Paul had the marks of Christ on his body (Gal 6:17) but they were not tattoos.

[Josh]

A lot of other things are also "acceptable" in our modern society, like casual recreational drug use or creating single-parent families. That doesn't meant these things are okay in the eyes of God, that they don't hurt innocent people, and that there aren't life-long consequences for doing them.

Somehow I don't think having a tattoo rises to recreational drug use or single-parent families...

I definitely associate tattoos with recreational drug users, having spent lots of time around adherents to either and both things. Like it or not, the association is there.

[RZehr]

A lot of other things are also "acceptable" in our modern society, like casual recreational drug use or creating single-parent families. That doesn't meant these things are okay in the eyes of God, that they don't hurt innocent people, and that there aren't life-long consequences for doing them.

Somehow I don't think having a tattoo rises to recreational drug use or single-parent families...

I definitely associate tattoos with recreational drug users, having spent lots of time around adherents to either and both things. Like it or not, the association is there.

It is there, but at the same time tattoos are becoming more mainstream. Especially smaller or discrete "tasteful" tattoos.
If you take someone who is otherwise dressed and behaves as a respectable member of society, a tattoo wouldn't necessarily be out of place on them.
Or perhaps my perspective tainted by living in Oregon all my life?

[Neto]

Because I had a big afro for the 5 years from the age of 19+ to 24+, people have told me that if I were young today, I would probably have both piercings and tattoos. I doubt it, because I had the afro as an identification with African-Americans, and specifically as a repudiation of the prejudice I had found in myself, which I had then rejected. (Whether that "identification" really worked, or accomplished any good, is a separate question.) But it is impossible to say with any certainty that these practices are really similar, or different.
But my question is, What is the symbolism in the mind of those who choose to have tattoos or piercings? (Am I wrong to talk about them together like this?) I know that my own reasons for having the afro were not always understood by other people, especially people who did not know me personally, and even some of them. I recall once being in the (Bible) college dean's office, and after a bit he remarked with visible surprise: "You're not rebellious, are you?!" I sad, No, and he preceded to suggest that I should stop wearing my hair like I was. He never got the notion that he should reevaluate his stereotype, he just wanted me to change to fit it. (And the ironic thing is that the dean of men, a straight-laced type from Nebraska who always wore cowboy boots - don't think he even owned any shoes - accepted me, and others like me, for who we were, rather than the stereotype one would expect him to be working from, if the most logical stereotype were applied to him. But the academic dean was what I would have called a "pretty boy" - perfectly styled & blow dried hair, just over the ears, and over his forehead.)
So I am trying to give the same benefit of the doubt to young people now that I would have appreciated then, but it just doesn't seem like the same thing. Maybe I should start asking people what these things mean to them, but I suspect that they do not want the attention of old people, only that of young people like themselves.

[temporal1]

Page 11

You are really stretching...

Not really. This is straight outta the Bible. You can argue with it. There's more scriptures like this. I met a number of ole times like yourself who come down hard on practices and when you quote the Word they say we are either misquoting it or as you say stretching it.

Your argument is not with me...

ah-ha. i posted in another thread without realizing all this was going on.

I would say no because Jesus was obedient to the Jewish laws which teach that we are created in the image of God, therefore proscribed against marking the flesh.

We are created in God's image and have no need of any permanent "adornment"

if He did, it would have been witnessed at the time of His crucifixion, and, very likely carefully copied ever-after.

“Would/Did Jesus have a tattoo?” / Page 1
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1559

hello, Pastor Rich!
a topic has interested you.

this is a great topic to reflect how folks can have deeply held beliefs for themselves, while remaining tolerant of others with opposite views. i’ve never been pressured to get a tattoo, or otherwise cut or alter my body .. (wait.) i have pierced ears! i forgot. this was 40 years ago, i have not worn earrings for many years. i was not pressured to do this. i just wanted to. sort of silly, my hair covers my ears, so, who would notice?

Revelation. hmm.
Years ago, i read/was told, The Book of Revelation is “hard.” i haven’t read.
i have so much trouble trying to grasp what is “not hard,” i have no confidence with it.
i understand there is much imagery, symbolism, things “beyond me.”

While i believe the spirit of the words regarding Jesus’ thigh, i would not constrain the meaning to tangible earthly understanding. i would seek the spiritual meaning. the words are beautiful and meaningful. if not literal, what is the meaning? my sense is there is meaning beyond the literal.

i agree with george regarding, “Your argument is not with me ..”

Page 3

The Bible makes it clear we are not to let our adornment be external, but rather to be a simple and modest one arising from godliness.
A tattoo's purpose is to draw attention to the flesh - literal flesh. It stirs up vanity, pride, and immodesty. We are not to mark and cut our bodies in order to draw attention to our flesh. Instead, we are to show a Christian witness by our conduct and our speech.
I feel the same biblical principles lead one away from wearing the latest worldly fashions, expensive clothing brands, jewellery, makeup, piercings, painting various colours on one's nails, and other similar things.

Some of these things we find expressly prohibited in the Old Testament -
such as tattoos to commemorate a dead person, which is a very common reason someone gets a tattoo.

Other things are shown in a context that make it clear it would be wrong for a New Testament believer, such as it being mandated for a slave to get an earring to show their loyalty to their new slavemaster.

As Christians, we should only choose to be slaves for Christ, and not swear loyalty to an earthly master.

in my family, “tattoos to commemorate dead people,” have happened.
one family member tragically lost a teen in a fiery auto crash, the mother was inconsolable, among lots of acting out her grief was getting a large memorial tattoo across her upper chest, shoulder to shoulder. it screamed grief.

i sadly witnessed thinking, her son would not have wanted this.
and, what must her other, younger children feel?

just this week, i was filling the car’s gas tank.
the car ahead had simple words+date on the back window, not large letters, but legible, commemorating a lost teen. his name, dates of birth+death. i thought, this is like a tattoo, not on the flesh. is this better? ok? in my mind, it was better. i will think more about it.

i agree, tattoos commemorating the dead are common, and always have been.

there is no one reason to get them. simple adornment, often with some sentiment, is popular these days. they are permanent in a world that changes fashion, and, they fade+bleed with time.
tattoos do not age well.

typically, i do not think of them.
because of this thread, i notice, they are now common.
yesterday, i saw a young woman with tattoos on the backs of her upper thighs, “claw marks?” - she was wearing a short skirt, chubby legs .. if not for this topic here, i doubt i would have noticed.

i noticed them on the arms of my granddaughter’s elementary school teacher last year. along with her purple hair. was she a bad teacher? no. a good teacher? not that i could tell. she seemed “conservative,” in most things. preoccupied with attending to everyone’s perceived “needs,” more than anything else - my impression. trophies for everyone, of course.

i see so much sadness and confusion.

[Bootstrap]

More grist for the mill ...

Coptic Orthodox Tattoo

This is a picture of a Coptic Cross Tattoo on the wrist of a friend of mine named Paul. Paul got this tattoo at the age of 13 while living in Egypt. It is a sign of pride and defiance given by the Coptic Orthodox Church and worn by its members in a predominantly Islamic county. Apparently, getting caught with this tattoo guarantees the bearer harsher treatment by the government. Coptic Christians have been getting this tattoo for generations, and although Paul’s tattoo is old and faded, at one time it was a vibrant depiction of the Coptic Cross. Paul mentioned that a few generations ago, Coptic Christians would get this same tattoo on their foreheads. I found a picture here.

Paul and I talked about the brutal murder of Egyptian born Coptic Christian Hossam Armanious and his family a few days ago. Paul said something that chilled my bones; “Stuff like this happens everyday in Egypt, and is happening now in Dalfur. Nobody cares."

Here's a picture of a cross on the forehead:

[Neto]

If a person first assumes that it is PERMISSIBLE to get new tattoos as a believer, what is the BENEFIT of doing so? To illustrate what I'm getting at, if one assumes that it is permissible for a person to own an expensive sports car, what are the benefits of doing it, or not doing it? If it is permissible for me to shave the left side of my head, and dye the other side in alternating stripes of green & blue, what are the benefits of doing so?

[lesterb]

The Bible has quite a bit to say about appearances. It speaks about not wearing costly clothing. It speaks about being modest. It speaks about not wearing gold. It speaks about not having broided hair. I think that these are just illustrations God gave us about the practical areas of the Christian's appearance. This may vary from culture to culture but within every culture there are ways to identify with Christ and ways to do the opposite. To me tattoos do the opposite. So would a fropo. I'm not discrediting your intention Neto but I think someone should have given you some guidance. There could have been better ways to do what you wanted.

[Neto]

The Bible has quite a bit to say about appearances. It speaks about not wearing costly clothing. It speaks about being modest. It speaks about not wearing gold. It speaks about not having broided hair. I think that these are just illustrations God gave us about the practical areas of the Christian's appearance. This may vary from culture to culture but within every culture there are ways to identify with Christ and ways to do the opposite. To me tattoos do the opposite. So would a fropo. I'm not discrediting your intention Neto but I think someone should have given you some guidance. There could have been better ways to do what you wanted.

Eventually it was the verse in James about listening to the elders that convinced me to get it cut. I thought it would damage my ability to relate to the sort of hippies I was working with at the time, but it didn't do that. So I agree, but I would also say that there are better ways to show separation from the world than extreme clothing choices. One thing I learned from it, however, is to listen to people rather than using preconceived notions of what something means. That era was, in many ways, a time when older people would not listen at all without a bit of a shock treatment (and maybe not even then). I just hope that I do better than that now, since I'm now the straight-laced looking old guy.