The Narrow Way

General Christian Theology
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JimFoxvog
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by JimFoxvog »

Maybe I'm being simplistic, but when I think of the narrow way, I think of Jesus saying "I am the way." Only one way, Jesus. Believe, trust, and obey.
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Paul
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Re: The Narrow Way

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cmbl wrote:Here's how I understand Matthew 7:21-27:
That part of the Sermon on the Mount was actually the topic of one of the sermons that the Lord used to convict my heart of sin, sermon was by Paul Washer. But yes there are alot of people that think they know the Lord when they actually don't - like myself before I was born again, I did tell people I was a follower of Jesus but I did not truly know Him and my life was filled with sin.

But had I truly repented of my sin and believed on Jesus Christ for my salvation? No I hadn't, I had no genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, I did not see He was pierced for my transgressions and bruised for my iniquities - I was not born again and my life bore absolutely no fruit, except evil. If I had died at that time, before my conversion, very well could I have been one of those people saying 'Lord, Lord..', and He - righteously so - would've said 'Depart from Me, I never knew you, you that work iniquity'. But the moment I truly repented from my sin, and put my faith in Jesus Christ, I was born again and received the Holy Spirit- and I knew my sins were forgiven and He would never hold them against me anymore because He actually paid the price for them Himself out of love for my soul.

You see I think the key in this text in Matthew 7 is the fact that these people had no relationship with Jesus Christ - He did not know them - and thus they were workers of lawlessness, much like I was before conversion: And then will I declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."

My point is what I think this text teaches is not contradicting anything else in Scripture when it comes to 'requirements for salvation', such as the salvation of the thief on the cross. We need a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ for salvation, which is obtained by genuine repentance and faith, and yes that will also bring forth genuine fruit in godliness. But I think it's important to remain cautious not to make the fruit the cause for our salvation, but rather the Olivetree into which we were ingrafted.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
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Paul
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by Paul »

Also, the more I read the Scriptures, the more I see confirmed that it is very Biblical to say that faith in Jesus Christ is the only requirement for salvation. In Acts 16 the very question is even asked, "what must I do to be saved?" And the simple answer is given, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

Acts 15:8-11 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Just wondering if that answer, to that particular question, would be a stumbling block to many an anabaptist?
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Narrow Way

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Paul wrote:My point is what I think this text teaches is not contradicting anything else in Scripture when it comes to 'requirements for salvation', such as the salvation of the thief on the cross. We need a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ for salvation, which is obtained by genuine repentance and faith, and yes that will also bring forth genuine fruit in godliness. But I think it's important to remain cautious not to make the fruit the cause for our salvation, but rather the Olivetree into which we were ingrafted.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
I think that's exactly right.

And we have to be careful not to exalt anything else to the level of Jesus. Sometimes it feels like a church is saying that abiding in them is what really matters.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by Bootstrap »

JimFoxvog wrote:Maybe I'm being simplistic, but when I think of the narrow way, I think of Jesus saying "I am the way." Only one way, Jesus. Believe, trust, and obey.
Simple is good. If you add "together" to that, remembering that obedience is measured by our love and our service to others inside and outside our fellowship, that covers a lot.

The Kingdom of God is not hidden away in some Greek tense or the footnotes of a tome on the Early Fathers. The Kingdom of God is not some kind of hidden wisdom given only to one or two particularly special churches who are the only ones obedient enough that God will speak to them. The Kingdom of God is not something lost that particularly clever disciples who know a lot of history have to reconstruct.

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by Bootstrap »

Bootstrap wrote:
JimFoxvog wrote:Maybe I'm being simplistic, but when I think of the narrow way, I think of Jesus saying "I am the way." Only one way, Jesus. Believe, trust, and obey.
Simple is good. If you add "together" to that, remembering that obedience is measured by our love and our service to others inside and outside our fellowship, that covers a lot.
Clarification: Obedience is also measured by basic holiness, avoiding sin, etc. The two go together. And as I read 1 John, love and serving others are part of what basic holiness is.
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cmbl
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by cmbl »

Paul wrote: Just wondering if that answer, to that particular question, would be a stumbling block to many an anabaptist?
In my understanding, Conservative Anabaptism is not real big on:
- Thief on the cross as normative for Christianity
- Searching through the NT for scriptures that only mention belief with salvation
- Trying to come up with a list of requirements for salvation that are as short as possible

Some Conservative Anabaptists have some room for:
- The moment you got saved
- Describing Christianity using the phrase "personal relationship"
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Josh
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by Josh »

Historically, Anabaptism viewed salvation as both a present and a future event, not a past event. An example would be how the colloquial expression amongst Anabaptist converts during the EMM days in Ethiopia in the 1950s was not "Are you saved?" but "Are you being saved?"[1]

[1] A Gentle Wind of God, Richard MacMaster and Donald Jacobs, Herald Press (2006)
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Paul
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Re: The Narrow Way

Post by Paul »

Yet the Bible speaks in no such terms about salvation,

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So what is so appealing to the expression that we are "being saved"? Is it out of some kind of fear of laziness in duty and lack of growth in holiness? Whatever it is, I think it's important to stick to the way Bible speaks about salvation.. you don't sing "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that is saving a wretch like me.." do you?

Another example:

Ephesians 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The Bible most often talks about salvation as a present reality, not something that needs to be worked out, but as something that we have received when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now there are ofcourse exhortations to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but those exhortations - though they are much needed in the life of faith - to persevere in the faith do not contradict the present reality of our salvation if we have believed in the Lord Jesus.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Narrow Way

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Josh wrote:Historically, Anabaptism viewed salvation as both a present and a future event, not a past event. An example would be how the colloquial expression amongst Anabaptist converts during the EMM days in Ethiopia in the 1950s was not "Are you saved?" but "Are you being saved?"[1]

[1] A Gentle Wind of God, Richard MacMaster and Donald Jacobs, Herald Press (2006)
I think this is broader than just Anabaptism, but all three are relevant.

I have been saved, I am being saved, I hope to be saved. The Bible clearly uses the word in all three senses. That's one of the things that led to the traditional distinction between justification, sanctification, and glorification. Glorification happens only in the future. They go together, they cannot be separated.

Similarly, we cannot separate our personal relationship with God from our fellowship with God and each other. God speaks to all of us together largely by speaking to each of us individually and giving us discernment together. That's why the prototype for a prayer service in 1 Corinthians includes both individual inspiration and group discernment.

And we cannot separate God's love for us from the need to love and serve others, inside and outside our fellowship. We are to be the hands and feet of Jesus in the world today. If we aren't loving and serving others, are we really holy?
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