Thank you for your kind words. Reconciliation is what I desire. I agree that that verse is often misused, just like the quote from Jesus “Judge not, lest you be judged.” (Ha. That would a topic for discussion, maybe. What is the most misused verse in Scripture?) But I only mentioned one side, because the other side was already well represented, and I didn’t have a lot of time right then. (Perhaps I should not post at all under those circumstances, but I tend to get long-winded when I do take the time, so there you have it.gcdonner wrote:Neto, I do apologize again and realize that my reply was based on a knee jerk reaction to the improper use (imo) of that passage from I Timothy. It is a common reply from those in "grace alone" groups to excuse the continuing in sin, believing that we are still prone to sin. I believe that idea is a confounding of scripture, which I was mixing with your post. You offered only one side of the coin, without further explanation, to which I reacted.
I am sorry and hope you will forgive me.
Baptists and Lutherans would mitigate against my understanding and see Anabaptist teaching as being legalism, as well as that of the Holiness people. As for the Holiness people, it was well intended and sincerely believed that the sin nature could be totally eradicated with the second work of grace, ie, an infilling of the Holy Spirit. It did leave a few people in hospital care who could not attain and lost their mental stability in the process, always striving but never actually measuring up.
BTW, I disagree with your take on the rapture/second coming.
) I don’t disbelieve one, and hold to the other. Both verses are Scripture, and both are true. You expressed well my own reason for posting the verse I did – that people who are genuinely seeking to live in holiness not loose heart when/if they do fail, feeling that they can never attain to the goal, so just deciding that it was no use. But that can really amount to a sort of legalism, because that thinking is based to some degree on the idea that I have to earn God’s approval, and we can never do that (in the sense of earning salvation).About being called a ‘legalist’. I got so tired of being called that, and being the object of ‘special prayer’ that I finally started just telling people right off that I was a legalist. I’d say, Hi, I’m Ernie, and I’m a legalist. (For anyone that doesn’t know, my legal name is Ernest, and I’ve gone by Ernie for much of my life in the States, after I was 20 or so. Neto is my Indian nick-name.) Anyway, that would really put them off guard, and so they would start asking a lot of questions, and end up arguing with me. It was easier to let them convince me that I was not a legalist than for me to convince them that I was not. They seemed to listen better.
Second work of grace. I went to Bible college in a Christian & Missionary Alliance school, so I was taught about this, and healing in the atonement, etc. I do believe in a 2nd work of Grace, and a 3rd work of Grace, and a 4th ….
Rapture. While I don’t agree with your understand of this, either, I do respect it, because I see it as a possible understanding of the Scripture.