Political party - demands?

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temporal1
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Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

i’ve been reading about Bishop Paprocki in Springfield, IL, in the last year or so.
he is establishing some margins for obedience to Catholic Church rules that prominent Catholic elected-appointed “representatives,” by their own words, do not accept. Pelosi and Biden are 2 infamous examples, less so, Dick Durbin, D, Illinois.

Bishop Paprocki is not taking the easy path in Illinois. he may be putting himself in harm’s way.
things can get dirty+rough. (i read, his secretary was murdered over simply speaking facts on some politicized matter.) he cannot be blind to this.

Durbin banned from communion
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/02/2 ... ishop-says
What did Durbin say last year about abortion?
Durbin said during a CNN interview last April that while he understands some Democrats may hold pro-life views on a “personal basis,” they must back the party’s pro-choice stance. :shock:

“As long as they are prepared to back the law, Roe vs. Wade, prepared to back women’s rights as we’ve defined them under the law, then I think they can be part of the party,” he said.

“I am committed to women’s rights under the law, reproductive rights certainly, and our party is,” Durbin added. “We’ve made that part of our platform and position for a long, long time.”
These words follow statements made by obama and hillary, to paraphrase, “churches, believers, must get-with the DNC party program.” :shock:

In their own words, this removes all doubt:
DNC politics FIRST; faith, ok, IF you can figure out how to make it work out.

it’s one thing to suspect you may be seeing signs of this. it’s another when they clearly articulate formal rules for you.

Catholic Office for Communications
https://www.dio.org/communications/pres ... s-act.html
.. Canon 915 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law states that
those “who obstinately persist in mani­fest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.” ..
this communication states 14 representatives are affected.

As i read about these incidents, i continually think of what i’ve read about on this forum regarding .. not serving two masters.
Matthew 6:24
http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-24.htm
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Bootstrap
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by Bootstrap »

This is one reason you don't see a lot of elected officials among Mennonites. Neither party lives according to New Testament teaching, and all lawmakers vote for bills that are immoral in various ways.
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temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:This is one reason you don't see a lot of elected officials among Mennonites. Neither party lives according to New Testament teaching, and all lawmakers vote for bills that are immoral in various ways.
clearly.
there are different systems of government, many offer little or no hope for citizenry to have a voice.
Jesus did not differentiate.

in the U.S., the system of “checks+balances” has done better than some others .. however, due to the continual human commitment to corruption, even this system has been eroded.

still, it’s not a straight-shot, “as the crow flies,” to hell.
in another thread, there are examples of moderating the descent:
Are court rulings moderating?
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1040

most prefer not to race into the abyss.
maybe that would be the more efficient, humane way? i do wonder.
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by MaxPC »

Bishop Paprocki has already received death threats and most among those who remain faithful in Catholic World view his secretary as a martyr.

Pope Benedict excommunicated Nancy Pelosi when he was in the Chair. Cardinal Burke issued an interdict similar to Paprocki's; this was years ago while Burke was Archbishop of St. Louis.

Now if we can get certain German Bishops to stop trying to change the Church's teaching regarding communion and the divorced, we'll be doing much better. It's always something. Never boring :lol:
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Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

Max:
Bishop Paprocki has already received death threats
and most among those who remain faithful in Catholic World view his secretary as a martyr.
i had not read of threats, but, that’s now the expectation, isn’t it? threats, and, aggressive actions for non-PC views.

i read a little about his secretary, no name, no time frame, i could not recall where i read it.
i believe it was described, the secretary was murdered for simply stating a conservative scriptural view of homosexuality (?) .. it was not a public statement, he was killed by someone so intolerant, any such view deserves the immediate death penalty, with no judge or jury.

(in my view) such extremes are the direct result of raw political activism.
people get so wrapped up in their causes, they fail to see any perspective beyond those.
they do not have Truth, there are no moral margins to restrain them.
hopelessness and emptiness.

conversely, people who are hopeful do not harm themselves or others.
a glimmer of hope, or Light, can carry us through the harshest of times. it’s so powerful.
Max:
Pope Benedict excommunicated Nancy Pelosi when he was in the Chair. Cardinal Burke issued an interdict similar to Paprocki's; this was years ago while Burke was Archbishop of St. Louis.

Now if we can get certain German Bishops to stop trying to change the Church's teaching regarding communion and the divorced, we'll be doing much better.
It's always something. Never boring :lol:
Springfield is Illinois’ capital. it’s not a big population, nor a suburb of Chicago (geographically.) private jets used by Chicago politicians make it a default suburb (my opinion.)
otherwise, it’s a generally working-class, not generally affluent, or memorable, place. crime has been visibly increasing. crime is beginning to put Springfield on the map.

Springfield has both a “nondescript” identity, and, an intensely political one.

my sense is, Bishop Paprocki is risking a lot from this under-the-radar, nondescript place.
“it feels like” this is in my nondescript back yard. this is not Chicago, or Africa, or .. other exotic place. it’s flyover country, where nothing happens. people grumble, but do not make waves.

i have read a little about the German bishops. :-|
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temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

a bit more on Bishop Paprocki.
i’m not familiar with The Stream, it does not appear to be a Catholic site.
not sure where they’re coming from ..

America Has at Least One Catholic Bishop: Thomas Paprocki.
https://stream.org/america-has-at-least ... -paprocki/
.. Excommunication: It’s What Bishops Do
So Augustine’s mentor Ambrose told the Roman emperor Theodosius, after he organized a massacre.
So Pope Gregory VII told the German emperor Henry IV, when he tried to appoint his cronies as bishops.
And so Bishop Joseph Rummel of New Orleans told Catholic racists when they kept black kids out of school.

That’s the sort of thing Catholic bishops are supposed do.
As heirs of the Apostles, they’re duty-bound to speak prophetically to power, in defense of the innocent.
As shepherds, they owe it to sinners to protect them from receiving Communion unworthily.

And as teachers, they have to step in when really, really public sinners keep on marching up to the altar, expecting Communion like a participation trophy.

That causes scandal, a theological term which describe the way movie stars now cringe when you turn up pictures of them kissing Harvey Weinstein. The actors who kissed (and covered up for) Harvey Weinstein, and haven’t repented, can’t march in the #MeToo parade.

And senators who vote to kill babies shouldn’t come to Holy Communion.

That’s Catholic doctrine. And in Illinois, now, it’s Catholic practice. Because Thomas Paprocki is a Catholic bishop.
i added some spacing (that helps me read more easily for content.)

this piece goes on to include some words regarding the current immigration discussions, and the Catholic Church’s current role.
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temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

Bishop Paprocki continues to surprise: Ice hockey
http://foxillinois.com/news/local/local ... p-paprocki
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temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

Bishop Paprocki on unions, the recent USSC ruling Janus vs AFSCME
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/art ... ver-unions
.. He continued, "Today, a number of unions actively promote abortion rights.
Three of the nation's biggest unions, including AFSCME, contributed $435,000 to the nation's largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood, in 2014."

"Forcing public employees to subsidize unions that promote such immoral policies and activities is just not right," he added.

Earlier in the video, Bp. Paprocki cited a passage from Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum. The encyclical states:
It is clear that they [labor unions] must pay special and chief attention to the duties of religion and morality, and that social betterment should have this chiefly in view;

otherwise they would lose wholly their special character, and end by becoming little better than those societies which take no account whatever of religion.

What advantage can it be to a working man to obtain by means of a society material well-being, if he endangers his soul for lack of spiritual food?
Bishop Paprocki continues to surprise me.
The fact he is in Springfield, IL, the capital of Illinois, steeped in lib politics.
An extension of Chicago politics.

Our daughter lived+worked there for about a year after graduating university.
She visited a Lutheran church, near her work. The pastor there counseled her that Springfield churches were highly politicized.

Springfield is not a big city. We were not political, at all. Truthfully, we would not have thought about it. The pastor must have seen (train wrecks) before, the uninitiated moving to Springfield.
i really appreciated his “word to the wise.” and, believed it. it only makes sense.

But, Bishop Paprocki. In Springfield, Illinois.
i mean, i’m accustomed to reading about the courage of Cardinals Burke and Sarah!
but, here, 3 hours from me!
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by Mennogal »

Bootstrap wrote:This is one reason you don't see a lot of elected officials among Mennonites. Neither party lives according to New Testament teaching, and all lawmakers vote for bills that are immoral in various ways.
I think that this is certainly important to the discussion... all political parties are guilty of not following the teaching of Jesus, each and every day....
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temporal1
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Re: Political party - demands?

Post by temporal1 »

Mennogal wrote: I think that this is certainly important to the discussion... all political parties are guilty of not following the teaching of Jesus, each and every day....
This is well established in lots of MN threads.
i’ll try to clarify my thoughts for this thread. sorry for the muddled mess. :)

Subject line: “Political party - demands?”

in recent years, i have been shocked at certain “instructions” (demands) given to (specifically, Christians) by elected politicians in the highest offices. above, i quoted IL Dick Durbin, but others are obama, hillary, pelosi, biden. not limited to these.

this thread has little feedback. that’s ok. i have no problem with that. :)

meanwhile, i have been surprised/side tracked with Bishop Paprocki.

surprised in the way i’m often impressed by anyone who chooses to speak Truth.
i find this frequently on this forum. there are numbers of members i specially value for their spiritual insights+leadership. this is not something a church title or even church denom label can control.

the Holy Spirit lives, it transcends the human and earthly.

i started this thread because (in my mind) politicians telling Christians how to be Christian is the
“tail wagging the dog.”

in another thread, RZehr wrote about the laity thinking of church as a “product to consume:”
RZehr wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/ ... leave.html

“The translation is clear – Americans treat church like a product to consume instead of as a family to belong.
When we treat church like a product, we consume until our needs are no longer met.
When we treat church like a family, we fundamentally understand there are no perfect churches.
Like family, every church comes with broken people.
That includes the church leadership.

Most of the time when someone leaves a church, it’s because a minor issue has grown into a monumental issue to the person or people involved.”
Page 3
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 2&start=20
i will take this notion a step further. :-|
it’s not just church members or visitors who get this mixed up.
church leadership can get it wrong, feed it, encourage it.
and, politicians seem to have “gotten the bug,” too.

church leadership/laity often gets caught up in politics, this definitely includes “liberal” Mennonite groups; some engage, and regularly vote.

it really goes off the rails when churches agree to accept government funds, in whole or part.
taxpayer money creates a truly sticky wicket. there’s just no denying it.

money can be a really tough temptation to resist. “think of all the good that could be done!”
i imagine it’s brutal to have to be in leadership positions to have to decide. i really do. :(
however. there are so many examples of awful outcomes.

now i doubt this adds clarity. :?
i’m sorry to realize, clarity is not my gift.
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