Political party - demands?

[Mennogal]

So then, for argument’s sake, should Legislators, etc... be subject to church laws, edicts, teachings, etc... Or is there an assumed separation of church and state implied in this whole mess? Is it a majority rule or a Christian rule, and I’m not arguing for any possibility, just generating discussion....

[temporal1]

i’ve learned so much on this forum.
one thing is that liberal Mennonites can be (fully) political.
another, from Max, is that Catholics can choose NOT to be political!

when U.S. Catholics are now elected to office, i’ve learned, they do NOT speak for all Catholics.

see, i recall when JFK was elected.
i was a young child, but i was not oblivious to the shock of my elders about his Catholicism.
in his brief presidency, i do not recall he attempted to convert anyone to Catholicism, nor did he attempt to define what that was. same for “the other” Kennedys to follow. to my understanding.

strangely, some of today’s stated Catholics in politics (like, Pelosi and Biden) .. appear to want to change Catholicism to embrace (lib politics.) they get lib media coverage. so confusing.

scriptures tell us government is a reality+necessity of earthly life.
there is no word about what form of government that’s to be, and, many forms exist.

scriptures tell us how to live on earth, regardless of our earthly circumstances.
how, and, why. “how” is for endurance; “why” is for strength+hope in even the worst of times.
many fine Christians have endured the worst, in faith. to live in faith is, really, to live.

[temporal1]

So then, for argument’s sake, should Legislators, etc... be subject to church laws, edicts, teachings, etc... Or is there an assumed separation of church and state implied in this whole mess? Is it a majority rule or a Christian rule, and I’m not arguing for any possibility, just generating discussion....

i believe there is a complete spectrum of understanding on this, across all of Christianity.
(this thread is in General Theology.)

there is a broad spectrum under the umbrella name, Mennonite, too.
there is lots of discussion on this, esp in the political threads.

CMs aren’t the noisiest ones found in political threads.
but, their input is what (i’m) present to read.

as you become more+more familiar with forum individuals, you will notice consistent messages.
as you read, you will sense what is of interest, and what resonates.

i may be among those “most changed” by reading here.
i began close to “zero.”
at least, in some ways. like you, i arrived as a believer.

[temporal1]

Bishop Paprocki continues in Springfield, IL
https://foxillinois.com/news/local/spri ... 09-02-2018

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (WRSP) —
The Diocese of Springfield is speaking out against sexual abuse in the church.

Bishop Thomas Paprocki asked 129 churches throughout central Illinois to read a nine page homily at the beginning of service.
The sermon outlines the outrage from many central Illinois Catholic Churches when it comes to the recent sexual abuse claims. ..

i hope to get to read/hear this 9 page homily.

[temporal1]

It seems so long since Bishop Paprocki’s name has been in Illinois news.
i’ve been wondering about him. now, this:

Catholic Bishop Denies Communion to
Pro-Abortion Democrat Sen. Dick Durbin: “Until He Repents of His Sin”
https://www.lifenews.com/2018/02/22/cat ... f-his-sin/

hmm. this piece is dated Feb. 2018.

.. “Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of Springfield, Illinois says Durbin is “cooperating in evil” and persisting in “manifest grave sin”
because of his abortion advocacy and must therefore “not be admitted to Holy Communion until he repents of his sin.” “ .. ..

.. .. “A 2013 letter from Pope Francis
says pro-abortion politicians should not be eligible for communion in the Catholic Church.

In the letter, Pope Francis directed the Argentinean bishops to govern the Church there following the Aparecida Document.

The text states, in part, “[people] cannot receive Holy Communion and at the same time act with deeds or words against the commandments,
particularly when abortion, euthanasia, and other grave crimes against life and family are encouraged.

This responsibility weighs particularly over legislators, heads of governments, and health professionals.”

“These are the guidelines we need for this time in history,” the pope wrote to the bishops.”

This is a repeat from the OP? .. (yes. a different news source.)
LSN does repeat former articles. Other news outlets do this, too.
i don’t mind, if it’s relevant, or, esp with updates.

But, because of this, i TRY to notice dates!

Those in Congress have to decide, as Anabaptists and other Christians must, about what work they can do. Eventually, choices must be made.

[temporal1]

Bishop Paprocki responds to sexual abuse allegations
http://newschannel20.com/news/local/bis ... llegations

.. The Diocese of Springfield calls the report "highly misleading" and "irresponsible" and said the information is not new, as those on the list have already been publicly accused. ..

.. Reporter: "What is it like, as a bishop, as a leader in the church, when this scandal came to light and you heard about this?"

Paprocki: "It's very challenging. I know it was challenging for me personally and I'm sure it's challenging for many of our faithful. They put their trust in their pastors and their priests. They put their trust in the church and to have that trust broken can be very challenging."

Paprocki said while these reports are unfortunate, they don't reflect the progress the church has made.

"Mr. Anderson's press conference and frankly, even in the preliminary report that the attorney general released in November, giving the impression as if nothing's changed in the church. You know, that historic problems that we've had from 30, 40, even 50 years ago, that these are still the same issues facing the church," Paprocki said.

He said children are safer now than ever before.

"I think our Catholic schools are some of the safest places in our country right now," Paprocki said.

He said they'll never stop working to make sure they stay safe.

"We can never say for sure that somebody's never going to commit a sin again - that's just part of human nature. But, we can do everything that we can to try to prevent that," Paprocki said.

The bishop said new safety practices are in place nowadays for priests, teachers and coaches, like not being alone with minors. They also undergo training to spot signs of abuse.

"We're not suggesting that they're perpetrators, but to be eyes and ears to look out for things. There are tell-tale activities or behaviors that people can look out for to say, 'Wait a minute, this isn't right,'" Paprocki said.

Paprocki said the diocese has several new safe-guards in place, including a new website and a review board.

You can find out more about members of the review board here.

How i wish high Catholic Church leaders had effectively+finally addressed these sins in the past.
Failing to do so has resulted in (corrupt) secular government becoming involved.
Due to past history in Illinois politics, i do not trust Illinois to be just in this matter, or any other.

This can be a warning to all church groups.
Hopefully, not just Christian groups! Today, it’s valid to repeat, “equal justice for all.”

SAFE ENVIRONMENT PROGRAM
https://www.dio.org/safeenvironment

The link in the report does not work. This must be it. ^^
(If he sees this, Max may confirm or correct.)

Diocese of Springfield, IL
https://www.dio.org/

[MaxPC]

How i wish high Catholic Church leaders had effectively+finally addressed these sins in the past.
Failing to do so has resulted in (corrupt) secular government becoming involved.

This can be a warning to all church groups. Hopefully, not just Christian groups! Today, it’s valid to add the note, “equal justice for all.”

The Website

The Catholic leadership has effectively addressed it in the past, but there is no "final". Every era has new leadership and sometimes that leadership fails the Flock; and sometimes the leadership is falsely accused as well. This goes on in all denominations. There's mention of leadership failures in the New Testament among the first Christian communities. To put too much faith in human leadership is a common failing. Our faith belongs to God and our efforts are imperfect until God perfects them.

Personally I quit reading the media's leading bleeding headlines. As you have so often mentioned, the media goes for the scandal, fake or otherwise, to get you to click on their stories. The Catholic Church is the biggest, easiest target of choice from the liberal media because we have not budged on abortion or homosexuality teachings that these are abominable sins. There's plenty of false accusations mixed in with legitimate ones from the media as you have also pointed out in other threads. This is no different from any other topic.

[temporal1]

How i wish high Catholic Church leaders had effectively+finally addressed these sins in the past.
Failing to do so has resulted in (corrupt) secular government becoming involved.

This can be a warning to all church groups. Hopefully, not just Christian groups! Today, it’s valid to add the note, “equal justice for all.”

The Website

They have but there is no "final". Every era has new leadership and sometimes that leadership fails the Flock. This goes on in all denominations. There's mention of leadership failures in the New Testament among the first Christian communities. To put too much faith in human leadership is a common failing. Our faith belongs to God and our efforts are imperfect until God perfects them. Personally I quit reading the media's leading bleeding headlines. As you have so often mentioned, the media goes for the scandal, fake or otherwise, to get you to click on their stories.

i’m watching this, and was particularly interested in Bishop Paprocki’s response.
The State of Illinois has named (with pictures) nearly 400 Catholic suspects in Illinois.

i’m still not over the shock of how quickly+finally the state was able to shut down Catholic adoption services in Illinois! This convinces me there is an agenda and it is without mercy.

Wayne shared similar happened in Maine, the pattern is continuing, state-by-state.
It’s sad how unprepared local people are to face up to these political bullies.

it’s an organized, well-funded, powerful attempt to undermine Catholics and Christianity.
Catholics happen to be “the big target.”

i’m sad to realize how many people sincerely TRUST secular government to address+correct these allegations of sins. i just sincerely wish it had not come to this. the ONLY way it could have been avoided would have been resolute answers within the church.

excuses, tolerating, denying, mercy, etc., were bound to lead to involvement of corrupt secular government. this can be a warning to all.

[MaxPC]

How i wish high Catholic Church leaders had effectively+finally addressed these sins in the past.
Failing to do so has resulted in (corrupt) secular government becoming involved.

This can be a warning to all church groups. Hopefully, not just Christian groups! Today, it’s valid to add the note, “equal justice for all.”

The Website

They have but there is no "final". Every era has new leadership and sometimes that leadership fails the Flock. This goes on in all denominations. There's mention of leadership failures in the New Testament among the first Christian communities. To put too much faith in human leadership is a common failing. Our faith belongs to God and our efforts are imperfect until God perfects them. Personally I quit reading the media's leading bleeding headlines. As you have so often mentioned, the media goes for the scandal, fake or otherwise, to get you to click on their stories.

i’m watching this, and was particularly interested in Bishop Paprocki’s response.
The State of Illinois has named (with pictures) nearly 400 suspects in Illinois.

i’m still not over the shock of how quickly+finally the state was able to shut down Catholic adoption services in Illinois! This convinces me there is an agenda and it is without mercy.

Wayne shared similar happened in Maine, the pattern is continuing, state-by-state.
It’s sad how unprepared local people are to face up to these political bullies.

it’s an organized, well-funded, powerful attempt to undermine Catholics and Christianity.
Catholics happen to be “the big target.”

Indeed all Christians are targeted. You wrote in another thread:

It is interesting to think how each POTUS has been unique.
Comparisons are limited. They are unique individuals, and, no 2 has met the same challenges in office. Every POTUS inherits an imperfect situation, how they address it going forward, and what they leave behind, is largely how they are remembered.

The same statement can be applied to church leadership: just substitute the words "church leadership" for POTUS.
The most powerful thing we can do is to pray for God's intervention. God is always faithful in answering our prayers. He is also faithful in providing the necessary graces to each new generation of Christian leaders. Struggles and suffering are just as much a part of Christian discipleship as our peace, joy and trust in God. The struggles help us to perfect our trust in God. That's why it's important to pray instead of getting upset with headlines, political maneuverings and manipulations.

[temporal1]

The same statement can be applied to church leadership: just substitute the words "church leadership" for POTUS.
The most powerful thing we can do is to pray for God's intervention. God is always faithful in answering our prayers. He is also faithful in providing the necessary graces to each new generation of Christian leaders. Struggles and suffering are just as much a part of Christian discipleship as our peace, joy and trust in God. The struggles help us to perfect our trust in God. That's why it's important to pray instead of getting upset with headlines, political maneuverings and manipulations.

i believe in prayer. i’ve prayed on this for years, since the 1990’s.
i knew far less than now about Catholics, but, i remember listening to Pope Benedict respond to the scandals of those years, thinking, “my goodness, he must have no idea how people believe sins against children and the vulnerable are not “ordinary” sins.”

if those scandals had been addressed in a final way, there would be no need of revisiting today.
not on the present scale.

Pope Francis can be confusing. but, he seems to be taking measures to address effective, tangible measures of prevention. better late than never. not quickly enough to keep secular gov away.

personally, i’m with those who would like to see priests have the option to marry; one man, one woman. Pope Francis has addressed homosexuals in the priesthood, that they should not enter seminary, if they are priests, they should step away. his words do not seem to be limited to “practicing,” i’m unsure of that. many oppose priests marrying. many would be comforted to know it was allowed.

we are to pray!
but we are also not to be foolish.

MATTHEW 10:15-17

15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16 Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

17 But beware of men;
for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues ..

https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-16.htm