God is a Spirit...

General Christian Theology
MattY
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Re: God is a Spirit...

Post by MattY »

lesterb wrote:Just to backtrack a bit: does Jesus have a different body today than he did before the incarnation? A body different from the rest of the trinity?
Well, yes. It would have to be. Neither of the other two members of the Trinity took on human flesh in the Incarnation, first of all. Second, the Resurrection was literal and physical. “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side." His body is different - it is imperishable and it is glorified - but it is material/tangible. We will be able to see, hear, and touch Him. (Note: for anyone who's averse to the idea of matter or physicality as something that is good or compatible with eternity, consider this: God created matter. God said it was very good. Sin corrupted matter; the regeneration will restore it. This is why the Bible speaks of a "new heavens and new earth".)

And the Bible speaks of His body: "who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself" (Philippians 3:21). The physical resurrection and glorification of Christ is the guarantee of our physical resurrection and glorification.

By the way, this sentence from your original post needs correction (unless someone already corrected and I missed it):
lesterb wrote:But Jesus does, though it is a glorified version of a body, like we will receive when we die.
We will receive our glorified bodies when we are resurrected, not when we die.
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Valerie
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Re: God is a Spirit...

Post by Valerie »

buckeyematt2 wrote:
lesterb wrote:Just to backtrack a bit: does Jesus have a different body today than he did before the incarnation? A body different from the rest of the trinity?
Well, yes. It would have to be. Neither of the other two members of the Trinity took on human flesh in the Incarnation, first of all. Second, the Resurrection was literal and physical. “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side." His body is different - it is imperishable and it is glorified - but it is material/tangible. We will be able to see, hear, and touch Him. (Note: for anyone who's averse to the idea of matter or physicality as something that is good or compatible with eternity, consider this: God created matter. God said it was very good. Sin corrupted matter; the regeneration will restore it. This is why the Bible speaks of a "new heavens and new earth".)

And the Bible speaks of His body: "who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself" (Philippians 3:21). The physical resurrection and glorification of Christ is the guarantee of our physical resurrection and glorification.

By the way, this sentence from your original post needs correction (unless someone already corrected and I missed it):
lesterb wrote:But Jesus does, though it is a glorified version of a body, like we will receive when we die.
We will receive our glorified bodies when we are resurrected, not when we die.
I tend to agree with what you say here except I'm a little unsure of your last point- in light of this passage- wondering how this speaks into this:
Matthew 17 King James Version (KJV)

17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain m
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Re: God is a Spirit...

Post by gcdonner »

buckeyematt2 wrote: We will receive our glorified bodies when we are resurrected, not when we die.
I disagree, we do receive our glorified bodies when we die. Once we leave here there is no "time".
Paul said, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", nothing about resurrection, rapture or what have you there.
Question, does the resurrection take place before or after the judgment?
The writer to the Hebrews says, "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment."

Think about it
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Valerie
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Re: God is a Spirit...

Post by Valerie »

gcdonner wrote:
buckeyematt2 wrote: We will receive our glorified bodies when we are resurrected, not when we die.
I disagree, we do receive our glorified bodies when we die. Once we leave here there is no "time".
Paul said, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", nothing about resurrection, rapture or what have you there.
Question, does the resurrection take place before or after the judgment?
The writer to the Hebrews says, "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment."

Think about it
Guess we are straying into another topic- as we consider this:

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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gcdonner
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Re: God is a Spirit...

Post by gcdonner »

Valerie wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
buckeyematt2 wrote: We will receive our glorified bodies when we are resurrected, not when we die.
I disagree, we do receive our glorified bodies when we die. Once we leave here there is no "time".
Paul said, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", nothing about resurrection, rapture or what have you there.
Question, does the resurrection take place before or after the judgment?
The writer to the Hebrews says, "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment."

Think about it
Guess we are straying into another topic- as we consider this:

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Paul could comfort the Thessalonians since he believed and taught (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) that he would be alive when this "rapture" took place. This is a past fulfillment, according to Paul and the Holy Spirit.
I stand pat on my previous statement, neither of the scripture passages did you reply to.
What is that old saying? "A text taken out of context is a pretext". That's what you have when you lift those scriptures from their divinely attributed time frame.
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