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Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:50 pm
by Heirbyadoption
Something I heard recently after a message on Faith - "We are saved by our acts of obedience." Would be interested in simple answers to this if possible. After the poll, can you share within 1 paragraph why you agree or disagree with this statement? References to Scripture are especially helpful. Thank you.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:45 pm
by Heirbyadoption
*crickets...*
Amazing how quick and how vocal various people are responding to some other threads today. Is this that scary?
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:51 pm
by appleman2006
I tire of this discussion because I often find it semantical in nature. I picked number one with a key word being "truly". If we truly believe than obedience will follow. Faith without works is dead and useless. But our works alone are also useless in the saving process in that without God's righteousness they are simply filthy rags. Good works may make this world a better place but by themselves do nothing to save us so I would never say we are "saved by our acts of obedience"
I have never understood why this is such a hard concept for people to comprehend.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:54 pm
by Bootstrap
What he said.
I think the main reason this is hard to understand is that there is a widespread false gospel in which salvation is a "get out of jail free" card granted as soon as you pray a particular prayer.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:55 pm
by Heirbyadoption
appleman2006 wrote:I tire of this discussion because I often find it symantical (is that a word?) in nature. I picked number one with a key word being "truly". If we truly believe than obedience will follow. Faith without works is dead and useless. But our works alone are also useless in the saving process in that without God's righteousness they are simply filthy rags. Good works may make this world a better place but by themselves do nothing to save us so I would never say we are "saved by our acts of obedience"
I have never understood why this is such a hard concept for people to comprehend.
I understand, but in my particular context, it is very much NOT just semantical. It effects our theology, our lives, our choices, our ecclesiological interactions.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:01 pm
by Bootstrap
Heirbyadoption wrote:I understand, but in my particular context, it is very much NOT just semantical. It effects our theology, our lives, our choices, our ecclesiological interactions.
Can you ask a more concrete question?
To me, part of this debate often ignores what faith is - putting yourself in God's hands, trusting him, entrusting yourself to him beyond what you can see. Hebrews 11 is pretty good on the relationship between faith and works.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:03 pm
by appleman2006
I would agree and simply add that both a view that would see works as the do all and end all and one that would see works as not at all being a part of the package would have a huge negative effect on how one lives his life.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:04 pm
by Bootstrap
appleman2006 wrote:I would agree and simply add that both a view that would see works as the do all and end all and one that would see works as not at all being a part of the package would have a huge negative effect on how one lives his life.
I didn't understand that sentence. Can you rephrase it?
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:09 pm
by Heirbyadoption
My initial thought is that if the exercise of faith is that which justifies us with God, then either exercising that faith (ie believing) is an/the act of obedience which justifies us, or it is not and we are justified and THEN called to acts of obedience.
Re: Are We Saved By Our Acts Of Obedience?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:19 pm
by PeterG
I'm not sure I can vote for any of the available options as stated.
I believe we are saved from sin by grace through faith. We are saved not only from the eternal consequences of sin, but from its power over us, and our obedience is among the substance of our salvation. We are not saved by our obedience; we obey by our salvation, by our faith in God and through his grace working in us. John 15 and Eph. 2 are two of the passages that have helped me to understand (to the extent that I do understand) the relationship between salvation and good works.