Personal convictions?

[Heirbyadoption]

An open question is how it’s possible for the Holy Spirit to give conflicting “personal convictions” to different people.

This is another case, I believe, where we deceive ourselves and where Christians as a group (groups) are simply content with this deception. How can we believe that God expects you to wear a wide rimmed black had and that I should be bareheaded? How can we believe that the Holy Spirit expects me to wear a beard with no moustache, and you to be clean shaven? Quite frankly I suspect that God is pretty indifferent to a lot of our "personal convictions".

I believe most personal conviction is just that - personal. And by the same token I think that many of the regulations of plain groups have nothing to do with what Jesus and His apostles actually taught, rather they are rules and customs such and any group setting boundaries will and should have.

We should

It appears you didn't finish sharing your wisdom, brother. We should...what?

[Wayne in Maine]

An open question is how it’s possible for the Holy Spirit to give conflicting “personal convictions” to different people.

This is another case, I believe, where we deceive ourselves and where Christians as a group (groups) are simply content with this deception. How can we believe that God expects you to wear a wide rimmed black had and that I should be bareheaded? How can we believe that the Holy Spirit expects me to wear a beard with no moustache, and you to be clean shaven? Quite frankly I suspect that God is pretty indifferent to a lot of our "personal convictions".

I believe most personal conviction is just that - personal. And by the same token I think that many of the regulations of plain groups have nothing to do with what Jesus and His apostles actually taught, rather they are rules and customs such and any group setting boundaries will and should have.

We should

It appears you didn't finish sharing your wisdom, brother. We should...what?

Typo.

I don't have much wisdom to offer in regards to what we should do about it.

[Bootstrap]

An open question is how it’s possible for the Holy Spirit to give conflicting “personal convictions” to different people.

Why should that be impossible for the Holy Spirit? For non-essentials (things not commanded by Scripture), can't God give groups and individuals the guidance they need, potentially different guidance than he gives someone else?

I don't think Scripture commands uniformity, and there are, for instance, varieties of gifts in Scripture. Perhaps also varieties of callings?

[Heirbyadoption]

An open question is how it’s possible for the Holy Spirit to give conflicting “personal convictions” to different people.

Why should that be impossible for the Holy Spirit? For non-essentials (things not commanded by Scripture), can't God give groups and individuals the guidance they need, potentially different guidance than he gives someone else?

I don't think Scripture commands uniformity, and there are, for instance, varieties of gifts in Scripture. Perhaps also varieties of callings?

But here's where you and our Old Order folk might butt heads. Perhaps the question should be turned, though: do the Scripture forbid (enforced) uniformity?

[RZehr]

An open question is how it’s possible for the Holy Spirit to give conflicting “personal convictions” to different people.

Why should that be impossible for the Holy Spirit? For non-essentials (things not commanded by Scripture), can't God give groups and individuals the guidance they need, potentially different guidance than he gives someone else?

I don't think Scripture commands uniformity, and there are, for instance, varieties of gifts in Scripture. Perhaps also varieties of callings?

I think the Holy Spirit is not only informing people on right and wrong issues, but also informs each person on issues that are pertinent to each individual.
For example, we are all operating to a certain extent on our life experiences. So if we have an experience in a certain area that negatively effects us spiritually, then perhaps the Holy Spirit will remind us when we get to near that area again. I don't clearly understand the line between Holy Spirit speaking and our conscience speaking, so I might be a bit mixed up. But we ought to listen to both.

[Soloist]

But here's where you and our Old Order folk might butt heads. Perhaps the question should be turned, though: do the Scripture forbid (enforced) uniformity?

I think that’s really a question of degrees for example, one church may mandate a specific style of dress another church may mandate identical head coverings another church may mandate head coverings and one church they mandate modest clothing. All of these have uniformity in some sense it’s just how far do you want to take uniformity... we could take it all the way towards everyone has to have exactly identical matching dresses. I would hazard I guess none of us would like that precise of a standard.

[Wade]

If you can get your hands on a CD set by David Bercot called Radical Discipleship from Scroll Publishing then I would recommend listening to this 16 CD for help on thinking through subjects like this. I recently bought it and am close to finished listen now and there has been a lot of very helpful biblical reminders about what is most important about being a radical Christian.

[Bootstrap]

I don't think Scripture commands uniformity, and there are, for instance, varieties of gifts in Scripture. Perhaps also varieties of callings?

But here's where you and our Old Order folk might butt heads. Perhaps the question should be turned, though: do the Scripture forbid (enforced) uniformity?

I am only aware of one group that tried to do this in the New Testament, the Judaizers who insisted that all Christians must adopt Jewish customs and practices, including Gentiles. Clearly, requiring Gentiles to do the same was not OK, and it was not OK for Peter to decide not to eat with his fellow believers to accommodate the Jews.

Beyond that, I'm not sure. I don't see any place in the New Testament that encourages this, but I don't want to judge it either.

[Heirbyadoption]

But here's where you and our Old Order folk might butt heads. Perhaps the question should be turned, though: do the Scripture forbid (enforced) uniformity?

I think that’s really a question of degrees for example, one church may mandate a specific style of dress another church may mandate identical head coverings another church may mandate head coverings and one church they mandate modest clothing. All of these have uniformity in some sense it’s just how far do you want to take uniformity... we could take it all the way towards everyone has to have exactly identical matching dresses. I would hazard I guess none of us would like that precise of a standard.

Soloist - With respect, my question as to whether the Scriptures forbid enforcing uniformity was not really answered yet. To your comments, however, I still find myself only in partial agreement. I do understand what you are saying, and by absolute technical definition (using your chosen example), asking all sisters to wear veilings and asking all sisters to wear the same style/material of veiling creates uniformity because they are all veiled. But unless they are mandated to wear the exact same (read uniform) cut/material of veiling (take the typical window-screen bonnet-type covering for reference), then in reality, they are not uniformly veiled. By your expressed logic, the Scriptures do actually REQUIRE basic uniformity in veiling, in that all sisters should conceal their glory with a literal veiling, but I'm thinking beyond the specific requirements of Scripture to our various applications. I apologize for not clarifying.

But... uniformity (based upon the principle of unanimity) implies sameness, and beyond the Scriptural requirement that all sisters "uniformly" be veiled, my question rises back to the surface and I will expand it for clarity - do the Scriptures forbid enforced uniformity beyond the specifics given in Scripture, do they give permission/command to enforce uniformity beyond the specifics given in the Scriptures, or are they silent (ergo, by assumption, neutral) and therefore its up to the congregation to establish or not establish and enforce forms and applications as they will in order to create their desired levels of uniformity?

[Bootstrap]

... my question rises back to the surface and I will expand it for clarity - do the Scriptures forbid enforced uniformity beyond the specifics given in Scripture, do they give permission/command to enforce uniformity beyond the specifics given in the Scriptures, or are they silent (ergo, by assumption, neutral) and therefore its up to the congregation to establish or not establish and enforce forms and applications as they will in order to create their desired levels of uniformity?

I'm uncomfortable with the way you ask the question. Uniformity is not a New Testament virtue. Righteousness and holiness, love, the fruit of the Spirit, trusting Jesus, loving God and neighbor ... these are at the heart of things. I would urge anyone to start by asking what is at the heart of New Testament Christianity and pick applications and practices that support that best. It's about the wine, not the wineskins.

But we cannot hold the wine with wineskins, so as we pick wineskins we should also be wary of letting the wineskins take the front seat. If we spend more time and energy on the wineskins than the wine, then we should reexamine the wineskins. Any wineskins, anywhere along the spectrum of Christian faith and practice.

So I would turn the question around: to what extent does pursuing uniformity help people focus on the things at the heart of the New Testament? How does it affect your relationship with other brethren who are also pursuing these things? How does it affect your ministry to the neighbors we are called to love? I can't judge that for your churches, and your experiences may be very different than mine, but I think it's important to ask this kind of question.