Plymouth Brethren

General Christian Theology
silentreader
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:Do Darbyite Brethren promote eternal security? The last time I endured a service, the topic was on all the dangers that can cause you to lose your salvation without you even realising it...
I'm not real knowledgeable about the Brethren but I think we are talking about the same people, perhaps there is considerable local variation. I know that around here quite a few used the Scofield Reference Bible, at least in the past.
Locally, approximately 50 years ago some of these Brethren engaged in a flurry of proselytizing among the OOM community, which resulted in a significant migration from OOM to Brethren, and numerous divided families. One of the premier hot button topics of the day was OSAS/ES and, as far as I know, most of the local Brethren still hold to that thinking.
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Hats Off
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by Hats Off »

Heirbyadoption wrote: What kind of Brethren have degenerated to the point of promoting Eternal Security? :oops:
As SilentReader suggested, I was referring to a Plymouth Brethern type of Brethern, not your kind of Brethern. So for these Brethern whose parents and grandparents may well have been old order Mennonites, the OSAS/ES is not degenerated; it is fundamental to who they are. (This is one reason I like descriptive labels, such as Old Conference/New Conference.)
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Sudsy
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Josh wrote:Do Darbyite Brethren promote eternal security? The last time I endured a service, the topic was on all the dangers that can cause you to lose your salvation without you even realising it...
I'm not real knowledgeable about the Brethren but I think we are talking about the same people, perhaps there is considerable local variation. I know that around here quite a few used the Scofield Reference Bible, at least in the past.
Locally, approximately 50 years ago some of these Brethren engaged in a flurry of proselytizing among the OOM community, which resulted in a significant migration from OOM to Brethren, and numerous divided families. One of the premier hot button topics of the day was OSAS/ES and, as far as I know, most of the local Brethren still hold to that thinking.
One of my father's closest friends was a Plymouth Brethren. He tried pretty hard but unsuccessfull to persuade my father that OSAS/ES, as you put it, is bible truth. He also was keen on the Scofield Reference Bible.

We held street meetings in those days and 3 evangelizing groups got a half hour each to preach the Gospel in a parking space area alotted for this in the downtown when people did much shopping on a Friday night. First was the Salvation Army with their uniforms and big drum and cymbals and coronets and alto horns. Then the Pentecostals with our accordions and mouth organs and hand clapping songs. And last was the Plymouth Brethren with no instruments and singing in unison, no 4 part stuff. Meanwhile, one of the biggest Gospel tract givers in our area (who has given out millions of tracts over his lifetime) would pass out Gospel tracts as these 3 services were held and he was a Mennonite Brethren. Brings back some fond memories as I was quite involved in tract distribution also in those days.

From there it evolved (dare I use that word) into parking lot, drive-in church ministry. My father designed his own home made pulpit. Then we got into coffee house evangelizing and crusades where we would gather together as churches from all interested church groups, form a choir, rent the local arena and do Bill Graham style evangelizing with some well know revival speaker like John Wesley White. We also went to local fairs and set up booths with puppet shows and other things to share the Gospel. I could go on and on with door-to-door evangelism and other ways tried to reach the lost.

I think for most it was an act of obedience to share our faith and not a personal conviction to do so or not. Repent, confess Jesus as Saviour and Lord, be baptised in water and get filled with the Spirit to be empowered to evangelize. That was basically our focus in following the early church. Things have sure changed.
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ohio jones
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by ohio jones »

Hats Off wrote:As SilentReader suggested, I was referring to a Plymouth Brethern type of Brethern, not your kind of Brethern.
Maybe that type is more common in Canada? I don't think we have many of them around here, or at least I'm not aware of them. Now in southeastern PA there used to be quite a few Plymouth Mennonites, though their numbers have been steadily dwindling since 2001. In fact my grandfather was one of them for around 30 years, and had been a DeSoto Mennonite before that.
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silentreader
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Josh wrote:Do Darbyite Brethren promote eternal security? The last time I endured a service, the topic was on all the dangers that can cause you to lose your salvation without you even realising it...
I'm not real knowledgeable about the Brethren but I think we are talking about the same people, perhaps there is considerable local variation. I know that around here quite a few used the Scofield Reference Bible, at least in the past.
Locally, approximately 50 years ago some of these Brethren engaged in a flurry of proselytizing among the OOM community, which resulted in a significant migration from OOM to Brethren, and numerous divided families. One of the premier hot button topics of the day was OSAS/ES and, as far as I know, most of the local Brethren still hold to that thinking.
One of my father's closest friends was a Plymouth Brethren. He tried pretty hard but unsuccessfull to persuade my father that OSAS/ES, as you put it, is bible truth. He also was keen on the Scofield Reference Bible.

We held street meetings in those days and 3 evangelizing groups got a half hour each to preach the Gospel in a parking space area alotted for this in the downtown when people did much shopping on a Friday night. First was the Salvation Army with their uniforms and big drum and cymbals and coronets and alto horns. Then the Pentecostals with our accordions and mouth organs and hand clapping songs. And last was the Plymouth Brethren with no instruments and singing in unison, no 4 part stuff. Meanwhile, one of the biggest Gospel tract givers in our area (who has given out millions of tracts over his lifetime) would pass out Gospel tracts as these 3 services were held and he was a Mennonite Brethren. Brings back some fond memories as I was quite involved in tract distribution also in those days.

From there it evolved (dare I use that word) into parking lot, drive-in church ministry. My father designed his own home made pulpit. Then we got into coffee house evangelizing and crusades where we would gather together as churches from all interested church groups, form a choir, rent the local arena and do Bill Graham style evangelizing with some well know revival speaker like John Wesley White. We also went to local fairs and set up booths with puppet shows and other things to share the Gospel. I could go on and on with door-to-door evangelism and other ways tried to reach the lost.

I think for most it was an act of obedience to share our faith and not a personal conviction to do so or not. Repent, confess Jesus as Saviour and Lord, be baptised in water and get filled with the Spirit to be empowered to evangelize. That was basically our focus in following the early church. Things have sure changed.
I don't know, of course, where your father was located, but I do know that some of the Brethren in this area had ties with others in the London-to-Leamington area, can't remember the names right now. There were a couple of speakers from way back then that I deeply respected.
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silentreader
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by silentreader »

ohio jones wrote:
Hats Off wrote:As SilentReader suggested, I was referring to a Plymouth Brethern type of Brethern, not your kind of Brethern.
Maybe that type is more common in Canada? I don't think we have many of them around here, or at least I'm not aware of them. Now in southeastern PA there used to be quite a few Plymouth Mennonites, though their numbers have been steadily dwindling since 2001. In fact my grandfather was one of them for around 30 years, and had been a DeSoto Mennonite before that.
I was Plymouth myself at one point, but I Dodged the consequences. Have been bow-tie ever since and never regretted it.
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Sudsy
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote: I don't know, of course, where your father was located, but I do know that some of the Brethren in this area had ties with others in the London-to-Leamington area, can't remember the names right now. There were a couple of speakers from way back then that I deeply respected.
We have a church here in Leamington called the Leamington Gospel Hall. They put on tent meetings still occasionally near the lake. My father's friend was quite well known in our area and I met his son a year ago in Chatham doing volunteer greeting work in a hospital there. His name is Dave and his father was Robert (Bob) Robertson. Wonderful Christians !

They have quite a list of churches listed here - http://www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchu ... locations/

And as you would know, they do believe in a head covering (lace or scarf type) when in their meetings.
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Sudsy
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by Sudsy »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Hats Off wrote:Sudsy, we have been over the head covering and baptism many times on MennoDiscuss and MennoNet. You and I both know that we don't agree and aren't likely to agree on these and more topics. We obviously have our reasons for our position on both topics mentioned; I stand ready to explain if someone truly wants to know the "why" but to just go in circles is not helpful. On Sunday noon we visited in the home of Brethern friends, staunch dispensationalists and eternal security. We had a long visit, just talking about areas that we agree on but staying a reasonable distance from areas where we differ. I will do the same with JW people I meet - I know I have little chance of converting them. I suggest we do the same here. Respect and appreciate each other despite our differences and go from there. I realize there are areas where you wonder how we look at certain aspects and that is okay. But those areas that we have gone over many times, we may as well leave those dicussions for others.
What kind of Brethren have degenerated to the point of promoting Eternal Security? :oops:
Just a comment here from my experience - I know of many who believe in eternal security but I don't see this in their living as a belief that they take as a license to sin. I have Baptist, Brethren and even Mennonite acquaintances that believe in eternal security (once saved always saved) or called by some the 'perseverance of the saints' that will happen and yet they pursue obeying and serving the Lord out of their love for Him. I have a cousin who thinks this is a terrible doctrine to believe and is a major contributor to careless, sinful living. It can but does not for many who treat it more as assurance of salvation to not live in fear that God might at some level of failure, disown them.
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silentreader
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Plymouth Brethren

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote: I don't know, of course, where your father was located, but I do know that some of the Brethren in this area had ties with others in the London-to-Leamington area, can't remember the names right now. There were a couple of speakers from way back then that I deeply respected.
We have a church here in Leamington called the Leamington Gospel Hall. They put on tent meetings still occasionally near the lake. My father's friend was quite well known in our area and I met his son a year ago in Chatham doing volunteer greeting work in a hospital there. His name is Dave and his father was Robert (Bob) Robertson. Wonderful Christians !

They have quite a list of churches listed here - http://www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchu ... locations/

And as you would know, they do believe in a head covering (lace or scarf type) when in their meetings.
That also varies, we have 3 churches close by, each one has a different ratio to veiled or unveiled at meeting.
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Hats Off
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Re: Personal convictions?

Post by Hats Off »

To the best of my knowledge, all women in the Gospel Hall veil for worship services. Veiling for women in Bible Chapels varies considerably. In some assemblies, most women veil while in others, there are just a very few older ones that do.

A couple that left the Gospel Hall and went to a Bible Chapel said that when that move is made several things happen; the ladies cut their hair, wear jewellery and pants, all of which would not be tolerated at a Gospel Hall.
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