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temporal1 wrote:During 2017, with new presidential leadership, court rulings appear to be moderating-away from strict atheist-humanist reasoning.

The president has very little influence on those courts - by design, that's how the Constitution works.

I think you can find plenty of cases that run each way. For the most part, court rulings are based on American law and the American Constitution, and they cannot be based on biblical reasoning. One of the challenges of the courts is to respect the rights of Christians, atheists, humanists, Muslims, etc. all at the same time. The Masterpiece Cakeshop case is a really good example of this - now that the judges have decided that gay marriage is protected, how do you also protect the rights of Christians who have religious beliefs against gay marriage? Or if you go back to much earlier times, how do you protect the rights of Christians who object to fighting in the military or going to public schools when these beliefs are very much out of the mainstream?

The president of the United States really does not lead the courts. He can nominate judges, that's a longer term proposition. And you don't always know how that will work out until much later. For instance, it was the Supreme Court that legalized gay marriage in the United States, not the president, and the majority opinion was written by Anthony Kennedy. Ronald Reagan appointed Kennedy to the Supreme Court, saying this:

Ronald Reagan wrote:Judge Kennedy is what many in recent weeks have referred to as a true conservative—one who believes that our constitutional system is one of enumerated powers—that it is we, the people who have granted certain rights to the Government, not the other way around. And that unless the Constitution grants a power to the Federal Government, or restricts a State's exercise of that power, it remains with the States or the people.

I think Reagan would have been surprised by Kennedy's opinion in this case, but probably pleased by his opinion in many other cases. We won't really know how Gorsuch develops as a Supreme Court justice for years.

Persecution has always made Christianity and Christians stronger. The courts can and do swing back and forth. I think the moderation you've cited is from two reasons:
Christians praying for religious freedom and God answering.
Christians learning to stand up for their religious freedom.

As for praying, that is one of the regular prayers we pray in our family.

Bootstrap wrote: The president has very little influence on those courts - by design, that's how the Constitution works.
I think you can find plenty of cases that run each way. For the most part, court rulings are based on American law and the American Constitution, and they cannot be based on biblical reasoning. One of the challenges of the courts is to respect the rights of Christians, atheists, humanists, Muslims, etc. all at the same time. The Masterpiece Cakeshop case is a really good example of this - now that the judges have decided that gay marriage is protected, how do you also protect the rights of Christians who have religious beliefs against gay marriage? Or if you go back to much earlier times, how do you protect the rights of Christians who object to fighting in the military or going to public schools when these beliefs are very much out of the mainstream?
The president of the United States really does not lead the courts. He can nominate judges, that's a longer term proposition. And you don't always know how that will work out until much later. For instance, it was the Supreme Court that legalized gay marriage in the United States, not the president, and the majority opinion was written by Anthony Kennedy. Ronald Reagan appointed Kennedy to the Supreme Court, saying this:

Ronald Reagan wrote:Judge Kennedy is what many in recent weeks have referred to as a true conservative—one who believes that our constitutional system is one of enumerated powers—that it is we, the people who have granted certain rights to the Government, not the other way around. And that unless the Constitution grants a power to the Federal Government, or restricts a State's exercise of that power, it remains with the States or the people.

I think Reagan would have been surprised by Kennedy's opinion in this case, but probably pleased by his opinion in many other cases. We won't really know how Gorsuch develops as a Supreme Court justice for years.

.. end of dissertation? or, just getting started?
i hope this thread will principally be of citing various U.S. court cases that may reflect moderating rulings. not a tutorial on how the system works/fails.
thank you, anyway.

MaxPC wrote:Persecution has always made Christianity and Christians stronger. The courts can and do swing back and forth. I think the moderation you've cited is from two reasons:
Christians praying for religious freedom and God answering.
Christians learning to stand up for their religious freedom.

As for praying, that is one of the regular prayers we pray in our family.

i believe one good that has resulted from all the chaos caused by libs-running-wild thoughout the land(s) is, it forces believers to seriously think about their faith.

there is not so much lukewarmness - and, lukewarmness was a real problem!

this point has been mentioned on forum, on MD, from time-to-time. it can hardly be denied.
people took so much for granted. i was one. but, the problem was widespread.
when that happens, there is bound to be a wake-up call. God promises, and, God keeps His promises.

problems resulting after decades of ambivalence will not be corrected in 1, or a few, elections.
will there be a sustained interest/effort? time will tell.

with or without favorable court rulings, authentic faith will persevere.

courts impact the “how’s” of perseverence. not the “if’s.”
the Holy Spirit determines “if’s.” in the most amazing unpredictable uncontrollable ways.

temporal1 wrote:
with or without favorable court rulings, authentic faith will persevere.

courts impact the “how’s” of perseverence. not the “if’s.”
the Holy Spirit determines “if’s.” in the most amazing unpredictable uncontrollable ways.

Exactly. Spot on.

temporal1 wrote:i hope this thread will principally be of citing various U.S. court cases that may reflect moderating rulings. not a tutorial on how the system works/fails.

The beginning of the first sentence of the OP needed a dissenting opinion, though. I suppose we could find a court case to that effect if necessary.

ohio jones wrote:

temporal1 wrote:i hope this thread will principally be of citing various U.S. court cases that may reflect moderating rulings. not a tutorial on how the system works/fails.

The beginning of the first sentence of the OP needed a dissenting opinion, though. I suppose we could find a court case to that effect if necessary.

‘not sure what you found there, counselor -
but, surely, a court case could be found to represent it! - in our litigation-crazy world.

my attempt was to “frame it” (OP) with generic recognition that the U.S. has a president, and a court system. i’ve been thinking of having a place to gather various cases that come+go, to get a better idea whether perceptions of moderating rulings hold water.

i’m not interested in ruffling feathers. plenty of that elsewhere on this forum.

presidents influence court decisions by appointing judges. judges must be approved by Congress.
as i understand it, presidents are not to counsel/sway sitting judges, but, i have read accusations of this happening in the past, not regarding the present president. true or false, that’s not a matter for this topic.

California
i believe this piece has more detail than Robert’s link on Page 1.
it goes a bit more into how the matter will continue to be fought in courts, expectations of continued targeting of this individual CA bakery owner, and it refers to the upcoming ruling in the Colorado Masterpiece Bakery case:

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/art ... y-weddings

“Judge David Lampe ruled on Monday that Cathy Miller, the owner of Tastries in Bakersfield, is entitled to refuse to make custom cakes for same-sex weddings.”

(the page may or may not be available. when i returned to it, there was a message saying the page is for Premium Members, i am not one.) sorry if that’s the case. i was able to freely read it once or twice.

temporal1 wrote:

ohio jones wrote:

temporal1 wrote:i hope this thread will principally be of citing various U.S. court cases that may reflect moderating rulings. not a tutorial on how the system works/fails.

The beginning of the first sentence of the OP needed a dissenting opinion, though. I suppose we could find a court case to that effect if necessary.

‘not sure what you found there, counselor -
but, surely, a court case could be found to represent it! - in our litigation-crazy world.

my attempt was to “frame it” (OP) with generic recognition that the U.S. has a president, and a court system. i’ve been thinking of having a place to gather various cases that come+go, to get a better idea whether perceptions of moderating rulings hold water.

i’m not interested in ruffling feathers. plenty of that elsewhere on this forum.

presidents influence court decisions by appointing judges. judges must be approved by Congress.
as i understand it, presidents are not to counsel/sway sitting judges, but, i have read accusations of this happening in the past, not regarding the present president. true or false, that’s not a matter for this topic.

California
i believe this piece has more detail than Robert’s link on Page 1.
it goes a bit more into how the matter will continue to be fought in courts, expectations of continued targeting of this indvidual CA bakery owner, and it refers to the upcoming ruling in the Colorado Masterpiece Bakery case:

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/art ... y-weddings

(the page may or may not be available. when i returned to it, there was a message saying the page is for Premium Members, i am not one.) sorry if that’s the case. i was able to freely read it once or twice.

You mean you're not Premium? And all these years I've thought....

silentreader wrote:
You mean you're not Premium? And all these years I've thought....

after spending a year+ getting my daily post count down, here i go increasing it.
i really do have other things that need tending.
other than waiting for the snow to melt from my driveway ..

i could paint a room, then watch paint dry.
that’s about where i’m at these days.

Florida
Employee contracts - private schools
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... thing.html

i don’t believe this is a court case just yet, but, i suspect the scenario was created for the purpose of taking this to court. this is not the first time similar has happened (private school employees signing contracts, breaking contract conditions, being dismissed.)

i believe the goal would be to establish legal precedent to remove rights from private schools.
time will tell if a court case is brought, then, the ruling.