The repercussions of sin in the church...

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lesterb
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The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by lesterb »

[bible]jos 7,1 10-12[/bible]

Achan sinned. It appears that he was the only one in that whole multitude who did this. But the whole group came under God's displeasure.

Will God take away His blessing from a group today, if there is hidden sin in the congregation?
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RZehr
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Re: The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by RZehr »

While I’m not sure if it’s fair to call it judgement or group punishment, I absolutely believe there will be a cost to the group. It’s like a disease, I think. Some more serious than others.
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MaxPC
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Re: The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by MaxPC »

This reminds me of [bible]Matthew 5, 30[/bible]
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Soloist
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Re: The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by Soloist »

MaxPC wrote:This reminds me of [bible]Matthew 5, 30[/bible]
I have wondered if this is not speaking to an individual but rather a church. I think of Paul handing the "member" over to satan as an example of excommunication and cutting off a member from the vine. I'm also recalling another verse talking about how we have differing roles, we can't all be hands...

my personal opinion is this is happening all over the place due to a soft approach on sin and tolerating it.

I gave an example of David to a friend of mine just showing how costly his adultery was... he was surprised by all the ripple affects.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Soloist wrote:
MaxPC wrote:This reminds me of [bible]Matthew 5, 30[/bible]
I have wondered if this is not speaking to an individual but rather a church. I think of Paul handing the "member" over to satan as an example of excommunication and cutting off a member from the vine. I'm also recalling another verse talking about how we have differing roles, we can't all be hands...
Having had the distinct displeasure of being part of a group of men and women who were publicly referred to as "gangrene needing to be trimmed" (I exaggerate not) by a couple of rather zealous ministers/deacons who participated in excommunicating a bunch of us during our 2009 split, I personally find this suggestion repulsive, though I do understand you certainly don't intend it unkindly and I didn't take it that way, Soloist. But more importantly, while I understand how the connection might be made as a reference to church discipline, I don't take the context and individual references in the sermon on the mount to permit it to fall into that category. I could be wrong, I suppose, but it seems unlikely that it was a corporate reference, also especially in light of the spirit of restoration behind so much of the rest of Jesus' teaching. I suppose the principle might fit corporately, but I would be extremely cautious with it.
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MaxPC
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Re: The repercussions of sin in the church...

Post by MaxPC »

Heir, I'm sorry that the imprudent words of those individuals caused so much pain. I agree, caution does need to be exercised in those situations with much prayer and invocation of the Holy Spirit.

At the same time, we've had our own situations in recent decades in Catholic World that ended with the excommunication of groups for the sake of the Church as a whole. One that's most famous is the case of Archbishop Lefebvre. In essence he threw the ecclesiastical equivalent of a temper tantrum, stormed off and refused to obey the rest of the Church about liturgy. His actions were "my way or the highway". He also sowed quite a bit of dissension in the rank and file. After many years and attempts by the Church at reconciliation (Lefebvre would agree to reconcile then renege), he was finally excommunicated in 1988.

My apologies for this rambling anecdote. My point is that I feel that sometimes excommunications are necessary but they should be done with great prudence, an abundance of prayer and due process that tries to respect the dignity of the parties involved as far as is possible.
:hug:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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