Validity of Salvation

General Christian Theology
Wade
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by Wade »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Wade wrote:I didn't know that?
I'm confused by the question mark... sorry. Are you confirming that you already knew that?
Sorry. Thank you for asking for clarification.

I thought most all Protestants believed in eternal security as once saved always or at least something very close to that from my experience.

I guess I have to be careful growing up a secluded, lowly educated, unchurched, backwoods Hicks, in regards to how little I know... And that is no joke. :-|
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Wade wrote:I thought most all Protestants believed in eternal security as once saved always or at least something very close to that from my experience.

I guess I have to be careful growing up a secluded, lowly educated, unchurched, backwoods Hicks, in regards to how little I know... And that is no joke. :-|
Sudsy explained his encounter with OSAS, which lined things up quite well. The majority of Protestants don't take OSAS as a license to sin.

Don't be demeaning towards yourself! Your reality and your exposure to OSAS could be exactly what you described, and it could be totally different from mine. In my experience with the Southern Baptist Church, Methodist church, and Reformationist churches, OSAS makes no practical difference among those who are genuinely serving the Lord, it's hardly thought of, and it's not taught as a license to sin or become lax.
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ohio jones
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by ohio jones »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Wade wrote:I thought most all Protestants believed in eternal security as once saved always or at least something very close to that from my experience.
The majority of Protestants don't take OSAS as a license to sin.
Nor do nearly all Protestants believe in eternal security or OSAS. Methodist (including Wesleyan, Holiness, and Nazarene), Pentecostal, Churches of Christ, and even a few Baptist groups are generally or historically Arminian in theology (conditional security with the possibility of apostasy).
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cmbl
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by cmbl »

KingdomBuilder wrote:As I've read various pieces by those who identify with "Kingdom Christianity" (Bercot and the like), I'm disturbed by the light cast on those who claim salvation and new birth without an understand of the kingdom movement.
Here's what I mean: The way these texts are written, it seems to treat a solid understanding of and an adherence to Kingdom Christianity as a prerequisite for true salvation and preservation. The idea seems to be that if someone claims to come to salvation through, say, hellfire for example,that they are being selfish and loving themselves; not God. Therefore, they really are not saved.
I have noticed that in some of those writings as well. We are not immune to falling into "salvation by theology." That's something I have to keep reminding myself.
So I'm wondering, is a salvation experience that comes from a degree of fear anti-Biblical? Is it valid? The desire to be loosed of a punishment is pretty natural, and we're often convinced of such by a degree of fear, so can it be used to further Godliness?
I think a degree of fear can be OK. Also, I'm not a fan of the "salvation experience."
Last edited by cmbl on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cmbl
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by cmbl »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Wade wrote:I thought most all Protestants believed in eternal security as once saved always or at least something very close to that from my experience.

I guess I have to be careful growing up a secluded, lowly educated, unchurched, backwoods Hicks, in regards to how little I know... And that is no joke. :-|
Sudsy explained his encounter with OSAS, which lined things up quite well. The majority of Protestants don't take OSAS as a license to sin.

Don't be demeaning towards yourself! Your reality and your exposure to OSAS could be exactly what you described, and it could be totally different from mine. In my experience with the Southern Baptist Church, Methodist church, and Reformationist churches, OSAS makes no practical difference among those who are genuinely serving the Lord, it's hardly thought of, and it's not taught as a license to sin or become lax.
Without knowing how the majority of Protestants actually live their private lives, I am unable to offer my opinion as to whether they take OSAS as a license to sin.

I've never spent time in any group that said "We teach a license to sin!" Nor any group that said "We teach cheap grace!"
I have spent time in groups where 90% of the young men were involved in pornography, and we were never going to lose our "salvation".
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Sudsy
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by Sudsy »

cmbl wrote: I think a degree of fear can be OK. Also, I'm not a fan of the "salvation experience."
If you are referring to an emotional experience sometimes brought on through emotional means and it is not the beginning of a new life in Christ, neither am I. One can be emotional over their sins and not turn away from sin, repent. I was raised in a church where there often was quite a pull on the emotions through things such as sad stories just before an 'altar call' and some would respond to these emotions. The next day, life went on as usual.

However, I have witnessed many 'salvation experiences' where the believing and repenting made an obvious initial change to an individual and began them on a road to seek more of God. My family, aunts and uncles, all unchurched had these immediate born again experiences and went on to serve the Lord in various ministries. Radical, 'damascus road experiences' as we used to call them (like the apostle Paul had) was quite common with the unchurched especially when I was younger.

I think some who have grown up in churches where the unchurched are not reached with the Gospel don't know first hand what 'getting saved' does to these people. It is truly a stepping out of darkness into the light. Does it affect the whole person and often the emotions ? It sure does. Being set free from the bondage of sin and the initial peace and joy, etc, etc. is an experience millions of the unchurched have shared in their personal testimonies.

I hope everyone here has seen this occur in someone's life even if their own experience might have been from a churched background and not so radical of a new beginning.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Good post, Sudsy.
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Joy
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by Joy »

I recently heard a pastor say that when he first professed salvation, he was told by a preacher that regardless of what sins he committed in the future, he was still going to be saved. So that's how he lived. Until he repented of his sins and truly surrendered to the Lord.
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haithabu
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by haithabu »

C.S. Lewis wrote that he believed that God would use any means to bring someone to salvation, even "unworthy" means like personal fear. I tend to agree. If we require a certain degree of "altruism" as a prerequisite to a valid faith commitment, then aren't we as much as saying that our worthiness is an ingredient in our salvation? But we come to God as beggars.

Regarding God's use of fear to save people, I think of Jonah's God given mission to Nineveh in the OT and also this in the NT:
And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Luke 23:42
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by Wayne in Maine »

I wonder what the relationship is between OSAS and the oft heard "but that's not a salvation issue". If you sort and bin the commands of Jesus into "Salvation Issues" and "Not Salvation Issues" then you can easily create a de-facto "once saved always saved" state of grace.

As a convert onto the Nazarene/Wesleyan stream I used to hear that having been sanctified we cannot sin - because we don't do the things in "this bin" (lying, stealing, fornicating, smoking, drinking, dancing...)
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