Validity of Salvation

General Christian Theology
Sudsy
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Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by Sudsy »

Wayne in Maine wrote:I wonder what the relationship is between OSAS and the oft heard "but that's not a salvation issue". If you sort and bin the commands of Jesus into "Salvation Issues" and "Not Salvation Issues" then you can easily create a de-facto "once saved always saved" state of grace.

As a convert onto the Nazarene/Wesleyan stream I used to hear that having been sanctified we cannot sin - because we don't do the things in "this bin" (lying, stealing, fornicating, smoking, drinking, dancing...)
I think the way this is sometimes explained is mis-leading and not all scriptures are considered on the subject. Not that I'm a pro at explaining this (far from) but this is how I understand salvation.

I believe a Christ follower who has the Spirit of God within them will not be a habitual, unrepentant sinner in the areas of sin Paul said that once defined us and other sinning the scriptures point to that is not the continued life of a believer. These are no longer our MO although for a period of spiritual growing they may be a battle area until conquered. Paul, like that list you mentioned, said some of you were this way but are no longer.

And yet none of us will leave this life without something in our lives that falls short of the glory of God. It misses the target of a perfect Kingdom way of life. This sinning or missing the mark, unless the sin of apostasy (turning against believing in Jesus), in my belief, will not separate us from God eternally. Our sins in that sense are blotted out, past, present and future and this perfect state is only had through the perfect Saviour. And anyone who sees this 'state of being seen perfect' as a license to sin, has mis-understood what salvation means. Salvation is being saved or rescued from a way of living that misses God's mark through receiving a new heart, a new disposition towards God, a new way of viewing life, that does not want to sin again and wants to live close to God. In that 'saved' state we can be assured that God will finish the work He has started in us. What is most important is to know in your spirit, by faith through grace, that you are in this 'saved' state.

So, I can't agree with the view that once saved we don't sin anymore and it is just called errors or something else. It is still sinning and we all do it daily. Being saved and having that assurance is a wonderful thing as it is not our performance of not sinning that saves us. However, being saved is also a life of not wanting to sin as we know sin brings adverse consequences and we are so thankful for God's grace that saves us, we want to serve Him. It is a 'have to' obey only in the sense of a 'want to' obey that comes from the new heart within.

Now I probably worded this confusing for some, hopefully not most, and I would invite any push back on my understanding.
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haithabu
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Affiliation: Missionary Church

Re: Validity of Salvation

Post by haithabu »

Based on my reading of Hebrews, it's not sin or unrepented sin per se that affects our salvation; it's the resulting hardness of heart which leads to "an evil heart of unbelief". For we are saved only if we persist in the faith.
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end... (Hebrews 3:12-14.)
It is easier to follow the flow of reasoning if you read the passage backwards:

14 We are saved if we hold our faith to the end.
13 So don't let sin harden you, and exhort each other accordingly,
12 because this hardening may lead to the loss of your faith connection with God.


So my understanding is not that OSAS, nor is it that my salvation depends directly on a tally of sins, but it is the condition of my heart as it affects the maintenance of my faith that matters.
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